Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 69 of 1283: World Builder (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (19:22) * 4 lines
SEAHENGE
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 70 of 1283: World Builder (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (19:32) * 1 lines
That is the tiniest woodhenge I have ever seen. Woodhenge near Stonehenge is much larger and was probably the ritual place used while building the more durable Stonehenge. Durrington Walls is a H U G E monument with a housing estate obliterating a lot of it, but that is probably where they lived.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 71 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (20:20) * 3 lines
re: post #34, i saw that show! they said they couldn't go into the other halls because of the water. amazing!! i was waiting with bated breath to see where all the tunnels led!
because i was trying to catch up, didn't catch up on everything, scanned through. so what is the seahenge? i can't see anything in that picture but sand bags and butts!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 72 of 1283: World Builder (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (23:49) * 1 lines
Seahenge is like a stone circle but the uprights are oak. Most of it has either rotted away or has been silted in. You can see them poking up about a foot or so. Henge means a circular monument around which is a bank and ditch. Lots of henges never had stones or uprights, but Stonehenge is the prototype and there is no other like it. It has shaped, mortise and tenon lintels and shaped sarsens. Most of the others are just stones chosen for their natural shape and set in alignments. Anything you can add about the Egyptian tomb? Sounds wonderful and amazing and breathtaking to watch. I'll watch the journals to see if they leak anymore information to the public. Fascinating!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 73 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (02:55) * 1 lines
There was another dig quite recently on Salisbury plain when the army wanted to build a new tank track. They found two sites, one was bronze age. I'll see if I can 'dig' up some details. There was an 'epic' book on Salisbury I read ages ago - same guy who wrote 'Hawaii', Marcia you must know it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 74 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (03:12) * 19 lines
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/ancestors/ser3pro6.shtml
Hunter of the Plain
To the north of Stonehenge, lies the vast expanse of the Army's Salisbury Plain Training Area, over 25,000 hectares (60,000 acres) of largely untouched downland. Last year, during the upgrading of one of the many tank tracks that cross the Plain, a prehistoric burial was discovered, lying in apparent isolation within a deep chalk cut pit. What made this burial so unusual was that, resting in the skeleton's hand was a clue to it's age, a finely worked flint arrowhead dating to the time of the first building of Stonehenge. This meant that the burial had to be late Neolithic, some time around 2500BC.
There was an additional puzzle though. Next to the burial was a short length of curved ditch, but with our burial outside it. A magnetometer survey showed that it was part of a circular ditch, about 35m in diameter, but excavation provided no clues about its date or its function. To me there were two options, it could either be a small henge, a roughly circular temple of Neolithic date, which would fit in well with the date of the arrowhead or, what seemed more likely to me, a levelled round barrow. These are burial mounds of Bronze Age date, many from about 2000 BC to 1500BC and they cluster in their hundreds around the Stonehenge area. Their shape and size varies enormously but I felt that our circular ditch was probably a ploughed down 'disc' barrow, a beautiful shape that looks like a target or shield from above. So, I thought that we had a Neolithic burial (about 2500BC) and a barrow from the Bronze Age, a few centuries later, say around 1800BC. However - when a radiocarbon date came back from a sample
of bone from the burial it was around 1600BC and snails from the circular ditch, analysed by Mike Allen, suggested that it was of Neolithic date. Why can't archaeology sometimes be a bit more simple!
But did the arrowhead mean that we had found a prehistoric archer? When the skeleton was examined by bone expert Jackie McKinley she found that it was of a very well built man aged about 35 when he died, certainly powerful enough to have used a prehistoric bow. There were no clues about how he had died, but the arrowhead did not seem to have been the cause, unlike the famous 'murder victim' from Stonehenge whose bones still had the tips of flint arrows embedded in them 4000 years after his death.
To find out more about prehistoric archers we enlisted the help of Alan Course and Hilary Greenland. Under Alan's expert tuition I made a flint arrowhead similar to our man's (although far less finely worked, I must add) while Hilary made us a replica of a Neolithic bow from yew, the perfect bow wood. Her pattern was the oldest surviving bow from this country, from Meare Heath in Somerset.
Initial tests showed that Hilary's bow was very powerful and so, to test its strength, and the effectiveness of my arrowhead (now fitted to a shaft by Alan) we took them both to the Defence Evaluation Research Agency (DERA) where the Army's modern weapons are put through their paces. The speed and drag of the arrow, its penetrative power and the power of the bow suggested, when fed into the computer programme that calculates the performance of a bullet, that the arrow would fly no more than 65 metres when shot from Hilary's bow. But this calculation does not take into account the human factor involved in archery and, in the field, the arrow flew for nearly 100 metres, rising to around 160 metres when the feather fletchings were trimmed to reduce drag.
So who was our man? Was he an archer, a hunter who roamed Salisbury Plain in the Bronze Age and why was he buried outside the henge or barrow that must have been the reason for choosing his burial place? What is certain is that he lived and died at a time when Salisbury Plain, with its temples and burial mounds, clustering around the magnificent and by now ancient Stonehenge, was the spiritual heart of prehistoric Britain. Our man would have known Stonehenge, he may have made the pilgrimage there at Midsummer and, perhaps more importantly, at the Winter Solstice, the turning of the year when life is renewed. He may even have helped to build Stonehenge...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 75 of 1283: Gi (patas) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (12:12) * 1 lines
Marcia, didn't you say I would find Portuguese petroglyphs here?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 76 of 1283: World Builder (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (12:17) * 1 lines
I am still awakening. I shall post them for you as soon as I get through the posts in Geo (I think we are giving Drool a run for the most popular right now!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 77 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (14:08) * 17 lines
http://www.he.net/~archaeol/
PORTUGUESE PETROGLYPHS
When construction workers laboring on a bridge in northeastern Portugal's Côa Valley lowered the Pocinho Dam lake by nine feet in early December, archaeologists and rock art experts jumped at the chance to nose around.
Their investigations were rewarded with the discovery of a new petroglyph panel to add to the array of local rock art dating from Palaeolithic times to the 1950s (see "Rock Art Saved," March/April 1996).
The latest discovery, at Fariseu, is a vertical outcropping incised with bovine and horse images, some sporting two or
more heads on single bodies to suggest animation. The Fariseu panel, covered at the base by undisturbed Palaeolithic
strata, has been dated to 21,000 years before present.
"Until now," Joao Zilhao of the Instituto Português de Arqueologia told ARCHAEOLOGY, "the dating of the stylistically
Palaeolithic Côa Valley rock art to the Palaeolithic was supported only by indirect evidence. This was very strong
evidence, but, in the language of the courts, only circumstantial. Now we have the strongest possible evidence:
stratigraphy. After the Fariseu finds, no one in good faith can question the Palaeolithic chronology of the Côa Valley rock
art."
At the end of December the art was reburied and water levels restored. Archaeologists hope to lower the lake again
this summer.--ELIZABETH J. HIMELFARB
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 78 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (14:32) * 113 lines
This is right near me but I haven't seen it in the 'flesh' yet. The WWW site http://www.etoncollege.com/lake.html has photos.
Eton College is constructing an Olympic sized rowing lake on the north bank of the river Thames at Dorney, Buckinghamshire. In advance of the construction a major archaeological investigation is taking place, organised by the Oxford Archaeological Unit.
Aerial Photography
Aerial photography shows that alongside the present river there is a series of gravel islands divided by ancient, relict river channels. Cropmarks reveal some of the evidence of past human activity on the dry islands: an early Bronze Age barrow cemetery (about 1800 BC), later Bronze Age field systems (about 1000 BC) and a Romano-British farmstead.
Evaluation
To supplement the evidence of aerial photography a large number of evaluation trenches were cut by machine across the 150 hectare site. These showed that the historic landscape was even more complex than first thought.
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Aerial view of the Roman farmstead showing the rectangular enclosure ditch upstanding in the growing crop. Inside the enclosure the circular ditch surrounding a house and various blobs indicating storage pits are also visible.
Plan of the site on the north bank of the modern River Thames, with former channels of the river and its tributaries shown in blue. The cropmark sites, which show on the dry gravel terraces alongside the river, are also marked (dark green on yellow).
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The most significant discovery was a major channel of the Thames which was active in the late prehistoric and Roman period. On the banks of this channel were Mesolithic (about 8000 BC) and Neolithic (c. 4000 BC) settlements. Alterations were made to the design of the rowing Lake construction in order to preserve some of the most important of the archaeological deposits, particularly the rare, waterlogged Mesolithic sites.
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Flint arrowheads found on the alluvial floodplain next to the former course of the river Thames. These arrowheads date from the Neolithic (4000-2200 BC) and Early Bronze Age (2200-1600 BC).
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The Thames Channel
The River Thames has been called `liquid history'. On its banks are countless royal palaces and of the most important historic towns in Britain from London to Abingdon and Oxford.
Since the last century the Thames itself has been continuously dredged. Large numbers of prehistoric weapons and prestige objects such as the Battersea shield (now in the British Museum) have been found, indicating the wealth of material deposited in the river.
Unfortunately little now remains in the river itself owing to the dredging. The channel has been scoured clean. So the discovery of a 2km long section of prehistoric Thames is of major importance.
Surviving within the Channel are prehistoric trees, the remains of a beaver dam and the layers of silt which act as a guide to past climate, river flow and human activity in the catchment area.
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Wattle trackway laid upon horizontal timbers between the uprights of another timber bridge crossing the former Thames. Only the tops of the uprights are visible; these were over 2 m long.
Late Bronze Age pot found in the former channel of the river Thames next to upright wooden posts around a sandbank. This was probably a deliberate offering made when the posts were driven in.
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Alluvium
The silt or alluvium deposits are a particularly important indicator of human activity. As the natural climax woodland was cleared from about 4000 BC there was increased run-off into the river valley. Alluviation is particularly evident from about 2000 years ago as arable farming intensified and the population increased. The Eton Rowing Lake alluvial sequence is one of the most complex so far observed in the Thames Valley. Dating by Optical Stimulated Luminescence and C14 is helping to define the sequence.
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Uprights of a timber bridge crossing the former channel of the river Thames. The timbers have not been fully excavated, and the figures are standing on the river silts. This particular bridge dates to c. 600 BC; part of an earlier bridge dating to c.1300 BC is visible to the left of the person farthest from the camera.
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The Earliest Bridges over the Thames
The most interesting human artefact found in the Channel are the remains of six prehistoric timber bridges, dated from about 1300 BC to 300 BC. They probably indicate a favoured crossing point of the river between two spits of dry gravel. These are the earliest bridges known over the Thames and the largest complex of its kind in Britain.
One of the bridges had carefully laid wattle hurdles running between two lines of uprights. These were clearly later than the bridge and suggest that a trackway had been laid as a ford over the silted channel.
Parts of two human skeletons and large numbers of animal bones were found alongside the bridge. These support the theory that human remains and offerings were deliberately placed in the river in late prehistoric times. The strongest evidence for this came from a sandbank where human and animal bones had been placed between upright posts along with a late Bronze Age pot (about 800 BC).
Other finds from the prehistoric channel include a 2m long oak mallet or pile driver, perhaps used in the bridge construction, and the head of a wooden ard or simple plough.
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Oak pile-driver or mallet found in the former Thames, perhaps used to drive in the upright supports for the bridges.
Bronze Age ring-ditch under excavation in 1996. The edge of a second ring-ditch is visible in the foreground. These ditches originally surrounded burial mounds, now ploughed away.
Crouched inhumation burial found around one of the Bronze Age ring-ditches, dating to c. 1800 BC. This is the burial of a woman aged between 25 and 30, who stood around 1.57 m tall.
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The Bronze Age Cemetery
In 1996 the ring ditches of four Bronze Age barrows were excavated, along with a cluster of crouched inhumation burials and cremations. Some of the original barrow burials had been damaged by the modern agriculture and drainage ditches. However one burial included a highly decorated middle Bronze Age globular vessel (about 1500-1200BC). Several of these rare pots have been found on the site.
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The Neolithic Midden
A remarkable find was made in 1996. One of the glacial river channels was used as a rubbish dump, or midden in the early Neolithic period (about 3500 BC). A small sample has so far produced 16,000 finds- flint tools, broken pots and animal bones. This is the period of the first farming communities in Britain. Artifacts and biological evidence from the earliest agricultural communities are extremely rare. This is one of the largest such deposits ever found in Britain.
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Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 79 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (14:43) * 3 lines
Maggie, what great things you have posted this morning. Incredible for one little lady to post on my most favorite of topics. I had not heard of the man buried so differently near Stonehenge. That is fascinating and I will pass it on to family who were there with me. I have not had time to digest it yet, but I will and have more to say then.
The Thames channel is amazing bit of history going back to the Mesolithic! There are not a whole lot of mesolithic remains around. They were built over, grown over, the sea took them or whatever, but this find is so exciting. Now, I don't have to wait for Antiquity to publish the report. We have Maggie on the scene. Get thee over there and let us know what you can see (a soggy trench, no doubt!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 80 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (16:48) * 1 lines
Unfortunately it's on very private land (after all Prince William goes to Eton!) I've craned my neck as we go past on the motorway, but haven't seen anything yet.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 81 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (17:02) * 1 lines
How disappointing. It looks as though it is on the seacoast, but Eton is not. Hmmm...is it a very wide river (gotta get my Ordnance Survey Atlas out!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 82 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (00:08) * 5 lines
Wow, you folks have been busy! What great links and pictures!! I never realized how many different "henges" existed.
How did the Druids end up getting associated with these circles, anyway?
Maggie, do you live near any of these places?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 83 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (00:35) * 1 lines
They did not at all. Unfortunately, a prominent Antiquarian a few hundred years ago (having more money than brains, unfortunately) stated that it was a temple erected by the Druids...I shall cite it better in the morning, but it was a fanciful notion which gathered cult status after his death. I have Aubrey Burl's first book, which enumerated and describes all stone circles in the British Isles as his published PhD thesis. It is a wonderfully readable book, and I wish I could have tagged along on his research treks. He is the one who wrote the book on Avebury which I cited earlier. There are several hundred stone circles; I will get the exact number in the morning when I can see better.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 84 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (10:52) * 1 lines
I live about 25 mins away from the site at Eton, an hours drive from stonehenge. But it's little use going there now you can't get to it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 85 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (12:14) * 2 lines
That is so sad - on both accounts - that you cannot get into it. Do you like Avebury? Actually, the town is Amesbury. I always thought that weird since it is halfway inside of that gigantic henge. Y'know, if it weren't for those latter-day bogus "druids" (objectivity has nothing to do with it), we'd all be able to get much closer to Stonehenge. I can recall sitting on the grass in the shade of one of the largest Sarsens for the longest time and just absorbing the feeling of the place. I was there long enough to see the teeny daisies blooming in the cropped grass and to remember the ambience of the place. It was lovely and we were the only ones there most of the time aside from the guards.
Fortunately, the Sarcen is an extremely hard form of sandstone and almost impervious to human battering on the usual scale of activity. Those stones are still there almost 4000 years on...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 86 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (12:19) * 1 lines
A little aside: I wondered how Maiden Castle (a colossal iron-age Hillfort and not a castle at all) and the rest of the "monuments" were kept so neatly groomed. After we'd climbed to the summit, we discovered why. The momuments are kept well trimmed by the biggest and healthiest sheep I have ever seen. They are moved from place to place as needed, and the only residuals are the "meadow muffins" you have to be careful not to tread on.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 87 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (14:46) * 5 lines
I visited Stonehenge in 1995. We weren't able to get right up to the stones, but we were able to walk by and get some pictures. If you were careful, you could keep the fences out of the frame. I don't know if it's been closed off even more than that.
Still have to take another look at my slides from that trip...
Never got to Maiden Castle; where is that?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 88 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (15:28) * 1 lines
Maiden Castle is in Dorset. I believe it is the largest hillfort and the one the Romans had to conquer to conquer Britain and bring baths, indoor plumbing and straight roadways to the Barbarians...!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 89 of 1283: Gi (patas) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (15:52) * 1 lines
I feel very lucky to have visited sites that are now closed, or have been in a long while. Stonehenge is one of them. Wonderful place.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 90 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (16:25) * 1 lines
Funny thing about Stonehenge...I had read so much hype and "New Age" stuff about the place that I did not even want to stop there the first time. The pleading of son David made me get out of the car. We walked up to that back stone, the biggest and tallest of them all. (We had just seen "2001, A Space Odyssey" prior to leaving for Britain.) We stood within inches of it looking up at it silhouetted against the sky. Suddenly, both of us had a hair-raising experience and we backed away together. That Black monolith in the movie HAD to have been in Clarke's mind when he wrote the book on which the movie was based. Stonehenge has held my interest ever since and I have a rather large collection of books on the subject.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 91 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (17:56) * 1 lines
I never really got into the "New Age" things concerning Stonehenge or the Pyramids for that matter, but I digress. I remember reading that one of the very remarkable things about Stonehenge is that is a lunar calculator. It was constructed to be in alighments with and to predict lunar eclipses. This wasn't known until the 1970's and was discovered with the help of (then) recent developments in computer science. The striking thing about this is that it takes a higher degree of mathematical sophistocation to construct a lunar calculator/observatory than a solar one. Not bad for people who apparently didn't have writing.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 92 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (19:05) * 8 lines
Indeed! Thanks for bringing that up about Stonehenge's alignments. I have that book, too. Stonehenge Decoded by Gerald S. Hawkins. He ran all of the coordinates of alignments of the stones. (There is more than a circle of stones at Stonehenge.) If Stonehenge had been erected anywhere else on earth the alignments would not have worked! A great overview with images is available:
http://witcombe.sbc.edu/earthmysteries/EMStonehengeD.html
"Floor plan" of Stonehenge:
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 93 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (19:12) * 1 lines
Note that in the aerial view at the top right a wide white band appears. That is the 345 Highway. When Stonehenge was first offered to the nation for £7000. It was considered too much money for an old pile of stones, even though it included many acres of land around it. When it became available again and purchased by the National Trust, it included only the immediate land around it. You can see the result - a highway ! If you walk away from the monument and look back, you will see that it is built on a slight hillside...but the top of the lintels is dead straight level. It is the most incredible place and unique in all the world.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 94 of 1283: MarkG (MarkG) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (03:46) * 1 lines
Sorry to be pedantic, but Stonehenge is at the junction of the A303 and the A360. In most ways it is outrageous to build a road so close, but on the other hand, it's great that you can get your fill of wonder every time you drive down to Devon & Cornwall.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 95 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (13:06) * 2 lines
Thanks, Mark I have a very bad map in front of me. Getting out the OS maps again. (Every so often I slip in an error to see if anyone catches it - but that was not one of them.) The 345 goes through Amesbury, no? The nearest town to Stonehenge? Btw, That is a great drive to Cornwall - full of "leylines" and ancient goodies for those with a discerning eye and an interest in the subject.
Please, continue to be pedantic. I need to have the right information out there.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 96 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (16:54) * 1 lines
It would seem that in some respects, Stonehenge is a bit like the Rodney Dangerfield of ancient monuments -- it don't get no respect. Well it's getting more than it used to anyway.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 97 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (17:17) * 1 lines
It has gotten respect. During WW2 it was considered so important that it was ringed with tangles of barbed wire and search lights so the Nazi bombers would see it and not destroy it (Hitler wanted British Heritage intact when he conquered the place...) The obscenities did not happen (except for the loss adjacent land) until the latterday "druids" started buring their dead in the henge and slaughering chickens on the "altar" stone (an upright which has fallen flat)... Nowadays it is getting all the respect it can handle and still be approachable. I purchased a Tower Minted commemorative coin of Stonehenge last time I was there and the obverse has the "floor plan" engraved upon it. It is one of my very most prized possessions!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 98 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (17:19) * 1 lines
But, Cheryl, upon thinking of them renting out sledge hammers to bash off your own souvenirs, you are right. I get furious every time I think about it!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 99 of 1283: Gi (patas) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (15:49) * 2 lines
(Marcia)renting out sledge hammers to bash off your own souvenirs
What was this??
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 100 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (16:17) * 57 lines
Here's some more for you
from http://www.eng-h.gov.uk/archaeometry/StantonDrew/
There are some great pics on the site.
STANTON DREW STONE CIRCLES (Somerset, England)
[ Please note : the sites of these stone circles, although in the care of English Heritage, lie on private land. You are welcome to visit them during daylight hours on payment of an entrance fee of £1.00 (please leave the money in the honesty box at gate from the car park). However, please do not take dogs with you, do not leave litter, and respect the country code.]
Stanton Drew lies off the beaten track and it is perhaps for this reason that its remarkable prehistoric stone circles have not received the same level of interest and exploration as their more famous relatives at Avebury and Stonehenge. This obscurity, and the lack of modern intrusions into their surroundings, has protected the solitude and character of these sites. Very little is known about them. The great stones (or megaliths), and the patterns they make in the landscape, remain mysterious; no excavations are recorded, nor have any modern surveys been made - that is, until very recently. This note provides you with a very brief background to the site and of the results of this new research.
The megalithic sites
There are three stone circles at Stanton Drew: the Great Circle being one of the largest in the country. The other two, to the south-west and north-east respectively are smaller. Both the great Circle and the north-east circle were approached from the north-east by short `avenues' of standing stones. Most of the stones have fallen, although a few still remain upright. In the garden of the village pub is a group of three large stones called The Cove, and to the north, across the river Chew, is the site of a standing stone called Hautville's Quoit.
Their proximity to each other, and alignments between some of them, indicate that these sites are related as a single complex, and it is a fair assumption that Stanton Drew was once a place of primary significance during the later Stone Age.
History and folklore
The circles are thought to have been originally noted by the famous antiquarian John Aubrey in 1664, and the first plan of them was published by William Stukeley in 1776. Although several other observers have written about them, they remain very much as first recorded over three hundred years ago. In the absence of many facts about the sites, the stones have attracted a considerable tradition of folklore. The most persistent tale is that the stones represent the members of a wedding party and its musicians, lured by the Devil to celebrate on the Sabbath and thus becoming petrified in their revels.
Archaeology and recent survey
Stone circles such as those here are known to date broadly to the late Neolithic and early Bronze Age (approx 3000-2000 BC), and many examples are known, mostly from western and northern Britain. In southern England the stone circles and avenues at Avebury and Stonehenge testify to a long and complex history within a landscape dense in other evidence of prehistoric activity. The circles are believed to have played an important part in contemporary social and religious life, and there is evidence that some were aligned with major events of the solar and lunar calendar. They are difficult subjects to tackle archaeologically, though, and their interpretation is the subject of much discussion, a debate much enlivened by the interests and theories of the `New Age'.
Apart from the certainty that the stone settings at Stanton Drew share an affinity with ritual complexes such as Avebury, there is little material evidence to take this interpretation further. Contemporary prehistoric sites seem to be rare in the vicinity although they probably await discovery. In order to try and lift this veil of ignorance a little, and also to help improve the day-to-day management and presentation of the circles, English Heritage have recently initiated geophysical research at the site.
Geophysical survey
Geophysical survey is a method of examining an archaeological site without having to dig it up. Several techniques can be used, but the one that has so far proved most effective at Stanton Drew is magnetometry. This relies on the fact that all soil is slightly magnetic and that this magnetism is concentrated and enhanced in many types of archaeological feature. Measurements made with a portable magnetometer, carried across the site at regularly spaced intervals, allows a picture of the local magnetic field to be built up. Magnetic `anomalies' are revealed in the subsequent computer plots as patterns which indicate the presence of buried features such as pits, ditches and hearths.
Fluxgate gradiometer survey of Stanton Drew [67.5Kb GIF]
This year the Ancient Monuments Laboratory of English Heritage has carried out a magnetometer survey [67.5Kb GIF] of the large field which contains the Great Circle and the north-east circle. The results have been astonishing and have, at a stroke, demonstrated that the megalithic remains at Stanton Drew are but the ruin of a much more elaborate and important site than had previously been dreamed of. Lying under the pasture within the Great Circle are the remains of a highly elaborate pattern of buried pits. They are arranged in nine rings concentric with the stone circle at the centre of which are further pits. The rings of pits vary in diameter, from about 23m to 95m. Although the magnetic signal is extremely weak, and it is difficult to make out individual features, it appears that the pits are about a metre or more in diameter and are spaced about a metre apart on the outer circle.
Left: Caesium gradiometer survey in progress [90.5 Kb JPEG].
Right: Caesium gradiometer survey of part of the area within the great circle [65Kb GIF].
This more sensitive instrument resolves the individual pits more clearly.
Just as remarkable is the discovery that the Great Circle is itself contained within a very large buried enclosure ditch (approximately 135m outer diameter). This is about 7m wide and has a broad gap or entrance facing to the north-east. Such enclosures, or henges, are a well known feature of later Neolithic Britain and are assumed to be the foci of ritual activity. Several henges enclose stone circles, and rings of pits are also a feature of some of them. Sites which bear the closest similarity to the patterns emerging at Stanton Drew include Woodhenge, near Stonehenge, and the Sanctuary, near Avebury. At these and other sites, the pits are known to have held timber uprights although it is not clear whether these were part of roofed or open structures. It seems probable that at least some of the pit circles at Stanton Drew once held massive posts. The circles are the largest and most numerous yet recorded at any site and surely indicate the investment of immense effort and enterprise in the service of preh
storic beliefs as yet only dimly perceived.
Interpretation plan of magnetometer surveys [10.5Kb GIF]
The magnetic survey also covered the area of the north-east stone circle and found at its centre a quadrilateral of four pits aligned with the opposing pairs of the 8 stones that comprise the circle. Here again is evidence of hidden elaboration: perhaps these are ritual pits, or they might be the holes of stones that have since been removed.
Comparison of Stanton Drew with other henges with timber circles [19.5Kb GIF]
These results are thus very remarkable and will thrust Stanton Drew well into the limelight of research as scholars come to terms with the details and their implications. Although no excavation at the site is foreseen at present, further survey work is planned which will aim to explore other parts of the site (the south-western circle, for instance) and will try and refine details of the main henge complex.
Paul Linford (P.Linford@eng-h.gov.uk),
Copyright © Historic Buildings & Monuments Commission for England.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 101 of 1283: Mike Griggs (mikeg) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (16:31) * 3 lines
neat!
any pictures of the stones??
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 102 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (17:19) * 6 lines
Yes, on the site - I'm not clever enough yet to patch them in. Marcia probably will when she sees it. I'd not heard of this site at all, but then I don't know Somerset much, I usually pass through on my way to Devon.
http://www.eng-h.gov.uk/archaeometry/StantonDrew/
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 103 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (22:06) * 2 lines
I'll post 'um just as soon as I eat something (long day at the ball field.)
Maggie, you have discovered one of my most favorite sites. Thanks for posting the URL.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 104 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (22:39) * 11 lines
Stanton Drew is near Bristol, England...across the Bristol Channel from South Wales.
From: http://www.stonepages.com/England/Inglese/StantonDrew.html
and http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~aburnham/eng/stant1.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 105 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (22:43) * 3 lines
No, Stanton Drew is not a recumbent stone circle in which a specially-placed stone was placed on its side lengthwise. These simply fell over. All, if I remember correctly, recombent stone circles are in Scotland.
Gi, it was in the 18th and 19th century when they rented out sledge hammers at Stonehehenge. The barbarity of the very idea offends me to the soul.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 106 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (23:48) * 63 lines
From the BBC - Friday, October 15, 1999 Published at 09:48 GMT 10:48 UK
Stonehenge face mystery
Silently watching us for 4,000 years?
By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse
Has the face of the creator of Stonehenge been staring
at us unrecognised for more than 4,000 years?
A British archaeologist claims to have seen a face
carved into the side of one of the mighty stones at
Stonehenge.
It is the first face ever seen on the Neolithic monument
and one of the oldest works of art ever found in Britain.
It was recognised by Terrence Meaden, an archaeologist with a
fascination for the ancient standing stones of the British Isles.
"I just happened to be there at the right time of day
because only when the light is right can you see it
properly. During the summer months it is only obvious for
about a hour each day around 1400."
It is amazing that it has never been recognised before.
Dr Meaden believes that it was missed because previous
researchers concentrated on the fronts of the standing
stones and not their sides.
The particular viewing conditions to see it at its
best will have also played a part in it not being seen.
"But once you see it it's obvious," he says.
It seems to carry a serious expression, almost a frown,
as it looks across the Salisbury plain.
Stonehenge was built about 2450 BC but why does Dr
Meaden believe the carving was made at the time and
was not done much later.
"Why would anyone do that?" he asks, "The type of
stone, Sarsen, is the hardest stone know to man. It
would have taken hundreds of hours working on a
platform to do it. Why bother?"
Meaden's photographs are being evaluated by other
archaeologists.
He also claims that other faces can clearly be seen on
the Avebury stones not far from Stonehenge.
But who is the face of Stonehenge?
"We will never know," says Meaden, "He could be the
patron of the monument or even its architect. Perhaps
the designer of Stonehenge has been looking at us for
four thousand years and we didn't see him."
Terence Meaden can be contacted by email at
terence.meaden@stonehenge-avebury.net.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 107 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (23:51) * 1 lines
That most curious article was found at URL http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_474000/474977.stm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 108 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 27, 2000 (00:16) * 2 lines
Curiouser and curiouser...
http://www.stonecentric.connectfree.co.uk/aveburyi.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 109 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 27, 2000 (00:23) * 5 lines
Remember how much I applauded the work of Aubury Burl? Here is the Megalithic web site with which he is associated:
http://www.megalith.ukf.net/
From that site this map of Megalithic Britain - there are a lot of stone circles and other alignments out there!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 110 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Feb 27, 2000 (10:29) * 4 lines
OK, England's back on line and awake (actually it's mid-afternoon!).
Drats, I thought I'd discovered stonepages.com only to find you already knew!!!
In the above map it's the clusters that interest me. Why? Is there any connection with the geomagnetism lines? Is the pattern continued in mainland Europe? I've got a book somewhere on early settlement patterns, maybe there's a connection somewhere.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 111 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 27, 2000 (12:25) * 4 lines
Maggie, I have been at this for more than 5 years...I began with a Commodore 64
where everything was done is Dos, you used lynx to surf the web and emailed using Pine. I can still do all of that, but how primitive it all is! However, I discovered some more good new URLs last night when I was posting all of the above, so Keep finding them and letting me know. I am always delighted when you find new things or discover ones which are truly worthy which I already knew about.
I was having trouble figuring out which place to post that map. Perhaps I should post it both places? From the Bronze Age onward the tin in Cornwall was much sought after to harden the copper found on Cyprus. That's why the Romans needed Britannia. More on that after breakfast...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 112 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (16:34) * 3 lines
Cyprus and Cornwall, we're kind of back to the Minoans. Yes, well a lot of Bronze Age people sailed out of the enclosed Mediterranean, hugging the coast of Western Europe, to Cornwall. Britain was the tin island. I'm a bit partial to the Minoans as they were extraordinary artists, and even had indoor plumbing. Seriously, what survives of Minoan art is remarkably beautiful.
About the face on Stonehenge -- it may be a face, but it looks as though it might be a natural formation in the rock. Seeing a face there might be analogous to seeing pictures in the formations of clouds. Only clouds are fleeting.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 113 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (16:40) * 1 lines
Of course, those faces are tricks of lighting and good imagination. Be sure to check the link I posted ("stonecentrics") at Geomagnetism. Very odd, indeed. He even admits to retouching some of the pictures. Go figure! Those who WANT to see them will see them everywhere!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 114 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (16:41) * 1 lines
Who can we recruit to check it out?! Mark? Maggie? Mike, how about a weekend at the White Hart in Salisbury?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 115 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (17:02) * 5 lines
i know i know this post refers to one from way back:
what's a petroglyph? *grin*
oh, and they should've brought me along on that stonehenge thing, i would've seen the face right away (good imagination, i guess).....love the pics!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 116 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (17:25) * 3 lines
Like a heiroglyph or any other sort, glyph means carved work. Petros is Greek for rock (thus St Peter) It simply means rock carvings. They are all over Hawaii, as well. New Grange (In Ireland)has spectacular ones and the Aborigines in Australia have theirs, as well as Amerindians, theirs. I think even we have them on our public buildings...!
Love to get you to Stonehenge You'd feel vibes and all kinds of fun things!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 117 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (20:40) * 3 lines
imagine what a child would feel in a place like that? you know, children are so oblivious to adult rules (no ghosts, can't see angels, etc.) that they'd be bound to feel something there.
one day, i'll see stone henge in the flesh!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 118 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (20:40) * 1 lines
thanks for the definition, that's the idea i had but wanted to make sure!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 119 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (20:56) * 5 lines
...thanks for being interested and asking *Hugs*
I know you will feel things all around Stonehenge and Salisbury Plain which is one huge antiquity which the military should get off while there is still something there. I told you the experience David and I had...it was palpable the feeling that we should not be so close to the stone and not to touch it.
They drive tanks all over the place there and fire live ordnance for practice. I know it is important to practice and our guys go into the saddle between Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea to do it - where there is just about nothing but bleak lava fields.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 120 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (20:58) * 1 lines
usually they practice out in the deserts and such. didn't know stonehenge was in the middle of such a field. i certainly hope the practice is for those in the know and not beginners who'd be sure to knock a stone or two over. geez!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 121 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (21:13) * 1 lines
Tell me about it. Some General wanted the stones removed so he could build a runway there during WW2. Britain is small, but they don't need to do that. Sheesh! Just lucky the Gods were looking over it. Between the sledge hammer renters and the generals...I am amazed that it is still there. Remember Avebury? The Huge Henge with the village inside of it? Guess where they got the stones for all of those houses, the church, walls everywhere?! Arrrrgh!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 122 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (00:33) * 5 lines
Seems like a lot of significant archaeological sites have been destroyed through sheer ignorance. Happened a lot in Greece and Turkey...
The experience you and David had at Stonehenge sounds really eerie, Marcia. Can't get close enough to the stones to feel anything like that now, though.
I was also thinking that those faces are more tricks of lighting and imagination than anything else, like the face on Mars. I think we have a natural tendency to look for patterns in things, anyway. Isn't that how our brain tries to process and organize the sensory input we receive?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 123 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (00:40) * 1 lines
I agree with you, Ginny, but we are pragmatists and scientists. Others may be more sensitive to other things we cannot even imagine. My ESP does not even work.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 124 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (00:47) * 3 lines
My ESP has never worked, either...though I admit that sciense doesn't have a clue what the human brain is fully capable of.
The temple of the sun at Tiwanaku in Bolivia had some very definate faces carved in the walls, but I don't think that site is as old as Stonehenge.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 125 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (01:07) * 1 lines
The temples at Malta are the oldest Megalithic structures, as I recall with the Boyne Valley 'tombs' in Ireland of which New Grange is the best restored are also very old. 8000 years old. There in one on Cornwall which just might be as old...More tomorrow on Ballowal.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 126 of 1283: MarkG (MarkG) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (05:38) * 3 lines
Unlikely to make it out to Salisbury Plain myself for a few months - don't think one can get close enough to the stones to check out the "sculpting" anyway.
On Newgrange, I was listening to a phone-in at Christmas where as recently as the Sixties, members of the public could just borrow the key to the gate off the farmer who owned the field with the passage burial-chamber, and go for a look. It wasn't till 1975 or so that a professor of archaeology suddenly wondered about the winter solstice, and went to camp out in the burial chamber for the longest night. Lo and behold, come the dawn the place was flooded with natural light for the first time that anyone modern had ever seen.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 127 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (11:02) * 1 lines
Incredible! I do wish they had a better name than passage burial-chamber or chambered barrow or whatever. I think there are just a few of them in Ireland and a few on Anglesey (which you also had to go to the farmer for the key when we were there in the late 70's and early 80's). Just as St Paul's Cathedral is not a chambered passage tomb, neither is Newgrange or its ilk. I shall post pictures and goodies about the Boyne Valley "tombs" as soon as I awaken and catch up with the overnight posts. Thanks, Mark!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 128 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (13:52) * 53 lines
Newgrange and the Bru na Boinne
Newgrange is a passage-grave that overlooks the valley of the Boyne river in County
Meath, Ireland. It is widely considered to be one of the most significant archaeological
sites in Europe. In Irish tradition the Bru na Boinne (the Gaelic for "Valley of the Boyne") is
sacred in and of itself, a reason why several other passage grave complexes, such as
Dowth and Knowth, were built there. Newgrange, though, is special.
Newgrange is the only passage-grave ever excavated that is aligned so as to allow the
light from the Winter Solstice sunrise to enter and light the main chamber deep within the
mound. This has significant spiritual meaning, as the Winter Solstice is the time of the
longest night, and the sunrise after this night (as the Druids would have celebrated it)
would mark the beginning of the return of light to the world. Building a passage-grave so
that the light of the beginning of the sun's annual resurrection may fall on the remains of
the ancestors is a powerful symbol, and serves to show the ancient Celts' considerable
theological, astronomical and architectural sophistication.
The purpose behind the construction of Newgrange remains, to a degree, a mystery.
While the excavation of the barrow earlier in this century revealed the remains of several
individuals within the central chamber, whether interment was the initial and sole intent
behind Newgrange is uncertain. The alignment with the Winter Solstice and the white
quartz facing of the monument suggest that this monument was constructed with more
than burial in mind, but the inner chamber is too small for more than a handful of
individuals to witness the brilliant Solstice sunrise. Would the highest of the Celtic elite
celebrate the holiday within, while others gathered outside for a group ceremony? Or
could Newgrange have been constructed for the exclusive use of a very high-ranking
noble family, as a private catacomb and worshipping space? The remains found had few
grave goods to support the second theory, but unsupervised access to the mound for
decades before the excavation could explain the lack of luxurious artifacts. The state in
which the remains were found also leads to some speculation, a mix of burnt and unburnt
bones, in some disarray. Were all of an individual's remains brought here, or just part?
Were remains left here forever, or were they circulated yearly, removed after the Solstice
light had imbued them with the spirit of resurrection? Unless some startling resource is
found, speculation may provide the only answers to the many questions.
In Irish mythology, Newgrange is the home of Aenghus mac Og, god of love. He won the
site from his father, the Dagda, by means of a trick. Aenghus had been away when the
magical places of Ireland had been parcelled out to the various gods, and upon returning,
begged his father that he might have Newgrange for only the space of a day and a night.
When twenty-four hours had passed, the Dagda returned to claim his own, only to have
Aenghus refuse to give up Newgrange, claiming that all of time could be divided into the
space of day and night, and that Newgrange was therefore His until the end of time, by
the terms of the agreement. Aenghus is supposed to have lived quite happily there for
some time, with his wife, Caer Ibormeith, whom he wooed and won in the form of a swan,
as she was enchanted into that shape.
Newgrange is well worth visiting, and is a very popular site with tourists to Ireland. There
is a waiting list for as long as ten years for the privilege of being inside the mound at
sunrise on the morning of December 21, the Winter Solstice. The freedom to walk within
this sacred monument is now in danger, however, as moisture from the breath of the
hundreds of daily visitors has been found collecting on the stones inside the mound,
risking irreparable damage - the monument is as weatherproof as the day that it was
built, but the pervading humidity from tourists' breath was not a force that was forseen or engineered against.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 129 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (13:56) * 61 lines
Winter Solstice Sunrise at Newgrange
by Will Hurley
Many years ago, my maternal grandfather led me into a large man-made earth and stone
mound, in county Meath, Eire. Being raised in the U.S.A. and only 14 at the time, I did not
appreciate where he was taking me or why. During the previous eight or nine years, he
had often told me he wanted to show me a wonder of the ancient world. Every morning
before sunrise on the solstices and equinoxes he would wake me up and make me go
outside with him. For most of those years I would whine and complain about it -- I wanted
to stay in bed, it was cold outside, I didn't feel like getting up so early. But he made me do
it anyway.
We would stand facing east to watch the first rays of the sun. The first year he had me
stand in a specific spot, and he wrote in a notebook exactly where the sun appeared on
the horizon. He also had me watch other spots on the horizon, by holding my thumb
upright while closing one eye and then the other. When I reached the age of ten, he made
me write the notations. Each year afterwards, he had me compare the previous years'
spots to those of the new year. The first couple of years I did not see a difference. Maybe I
really didn't notice a difference, or maybe I was too young to care. Then I saw that the
point where the sun touched the horizon was slowly changing. It was not something I could
compare between sightings year to year, but over a few years a change was noticeable.
Granddad finally explained the earth science reasons that were behind this, and said he
would take me on a long airplane ride to show me why he had made me get up all those
mornings.
The night before we were to go into the mound, Granddad seemed very depressed.
When I asked him why, he told me the morning might be overcast, and we might not be
able to see the sunrise. I learned in later years he had called in many favors from his youth
in Ireland to do this with me. After a while he decided that we would go to the mound
anyway, just in case.
We met several other people just before we entered. Everyone seemed quiet to me, but I
sensed a great deal of excitement. We entered the mound about an hour before sunrise.
The first thing that I noticed was the odor. It wasn't a bad smell, but it seemed old to me,
like a mix of a stone cellar and a damp forest all at the same time. We used flashlights to
find our way to the rear of the passageway. The floor was not smooth, and someone
could have tripped and hurt themselves without the lights.
It was very dark after everyone turned off their lights. Completely dark. For a while this
made me uncomfortable. I knew I was standing next to Granddad, but I could not see him
or anyone else. I tried to calm myself down by taking slow measured breaths (an exercise
he had taught me). I began to hear the others breathing. Someone began to hum softly.
Others joined in. I realized it was a tune Granddad often hummed or whistled and I knew
how it went, so I joined in as well.
About twenty minutes later, while everyone was still humming, I noticed it was getting a
little lighter. I could just barely make out the shape of the people who stood between me
and the door. Then everyone went silent. A glow had begun to appear at the front of the
opening, over the door. Soon a ray of light was on the wall. I thought someone was
outside, shining a floodlight through a small hole. The light slowly kept moving toward us.
Then I realized what Granddad had been doing all those years. He had been preparing
me for this very moment. The sun was slowly making its way to the innermost chamber of
the mound, and finally reached it. The emotions of observing and participating in this age
old event are indescribable. Even though we had been prepared for disappointment if it
had been an overcast morning, this millenia old event had occurred again. All too soon
the sun had lit up the inner chamber and now it was beginning to dim. Feelings of regret
that nature and man's light show was over were nothing compared to the awe of this
marvel.
Over the years I have often remembered that morning. Through study I now know that this
only happens on the winter solstice. Occasionally the same effect can happen the day
before or the day after. What is amazing is that this has been happening every year for
over four thousand years. Built over a thousand years before the Egyptian pyramids, the
inhabitants of prehistoric Ireland created a monument to man's ingenuity and nature's
never-ending cycles.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 130 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (14:03) * 4 lines
More of Newgrange
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 131 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (15:58) * 5 lines
way kewl! *grin*
back to maggie saying scientists don't know much about our brains, i've read that humans use only 10% of their brain. can you imagine what we'd be capable of if we used 20%, 15%? kinda creepy. well, i think clairvoyance comes from a glimpse into that area. and because humans only want logical answers to everything, we logically call those folks crazy. we do seek patterns so things make sense to our brains, but i could never doubt that there IS a face in that stone!
i like patterns so this rock appeals to me, love the swirls! reminds me of snail shells or nautilus shells....
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 132 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (16:32) * 1 lines
Spirals are some of the oldest petroglyphs (Yes!) known...and they occur all over the world in all cultures. Sacred dances are done sunwise directions and mazes in hedges (as well as the maze in the tile on the floor of Chartres Cathedral...they are very old, indeed! This more properly goes in Geomagnetism but is fascinating anywhere.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 133 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (17:05) * 1 lines
Did I really say that? sounds too profound for me!!! *lol* I think there is a LOT that we don't understand. The more I see and hear about how people used to live, the more I feel I don't understand human life. At times it seems like an immense amount of knowledge has been lost, despite all our computers and technology and stuff. I don't think it's wierd metaphysical stuff either, but aspects of these brains of ours that we don't understand and therefore despise. (I'm not saying I despise it just that ....) I'll shut up for now.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 134 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (17:17) * 1 lines
Well said (and please, don't shut up!) You did mention that when commenting on my suggestion that we had probably forgotten more of what we originally knew than we remember... No wonder we have problems if we are only using 10% of the available space. There are some people I know whose brains must be smooth and unwrinkled...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 135 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (18:31) * 3 lines
I was the one who made the comment about the human brain, and I have heard that same statistic, Wolf. I've always wondered what it would take just to tap into another 10% of our brainpower. Maybe that's what geniuses like Einstein were doing...just wish we knew *how* they did it!
I can totally believe that I have forgotten more of what I've learned than I can remember! I've tried ginko biloba, but it hasn't helped.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 136 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (19:21) * 1 lines
Wail'll you get some age on you! Sometimes all we remember is stuff we do not need. It is most aggravating!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 137 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (19:29) * 1 lines
i'm sorry about the mix up of who said what *grin* i do that a lot! (talk about memory)....
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 138 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (20:07) * 65 lines
http://www.paddynet.com/island/newgrange/ancient.html
Covering an area of one acre, Newgrange is one of the most impressive prehistoric monuments in Europe. The entrance,
which is almost sixty feet long, leads to the main chamber, which has a corbelled roof and rises to a height of nineteen feet.
The traditional name for Newgrange and the grouping of tombs to which it belongs, was Brugh na Bóinne; and it was
regarded as the otherworld dwelling of the divine Aonghus Mac Óg - Aonghus the Youthful.
Older than Stonehenge, the giant megalithic tomb of Newgrange was probably erected about
3,200 BC (in calendar years). It is one of a group of 40 passage tombs including Knowth and
Dowth, that are enclosed on three sides by the river Boyne.
Passage tombs are generally found in clusters giving rise to the theory that they were ancient
cemeteries, perhaps for leading families. They consist essentially of a round mound or cairn
with a long, stone lined passage leading from the outside to a chamber within. As with
Newgrange, which can still be seen by the naked eye from the Hill of Tara, some 15 miles
away, they tend to be situated on hill tops and commanding sites.
The mound is enclosed on the outside by a circle of standing stones of which twelve remain.
This gives the impression that the monument was built and designed to stand out from the
landscape - perhaps as a beacon for pagan worship. The present day reconstruction, aimed at restoring the site to its
pre-historic appearance, gives this theory further substance. Many have likened it to a grounded flying saucer; and it is the
subject of much controversy. However, during the Newgrange excavations between 1962 - 1965, much research focused on
the original shape of the cairn. This information was drawn from the accounts of those who had visited the monument in the
preceding centuries: all of them commented on its flat top. And the positioning of the white quartz stones that reinforce the
front of the mound is based entirely on meticulous engineering analysis of the cairn collapse.
The white quartz gives the monument a particularly startling facade and it is worth noting that this was only positioned at the
front of the cairn, facing the sun. White quartz is known for its energy-dispersing properties and it may, therefore, have been
used to absorb and channel its life-giving energy, or it may simply have provided further visibility to those wishing to reach
the site. In addition, there were large numbers of oval granite boulders found amongst the collapsed quartz facade. These
have been scattered randomly through the reconstructed facade, without acknowledgement to any possible use for these
dark stones as patterning elements within the quartz. The twentieth century restorers were not prepared to risk a spiral
pattern.
The reasons for the use of quartz and granite, and their design, must have been of consequence because the builders of the
Newgrange went to great lengths to put the stones there. They are not found locally. The nearest place that they could have
collected the quartz was from the Wicklow Mountains to the South; and such a journey would have taken them seven days
going by canoe along the Boyne and down the coast. The granite was probably collected around the Mourne Mountains,
some days to the North.
The cairn itself is reinforced at its base by a continuous circle of stones, called kerb stones. Many of these are ornamented.
The most spectacular of these are the entrance stone, and the stone opposite the entrance on the other side of the mound.
There is much speculation as to the meaning of these complex designs and many consider them to have solar symbology as
sun worship was the most widely spread cult in pre-historic Europe.
One of the most interesting features of the mound, particularly in view of the fact that it is a feature unique to Newgrange, is
the roof-box above the entrance to the passageway. It consists of two low side-walls, a back corbel and a roofstone; and it is
through this gap that the dawn sun beams on the winter solstice. Its purpose is unknown, but some have speculated that the
builders: must have held the sun in such high regard that they gave it a separate entrance.
Entering the passage tomb is a remarkable experience: the corbelled roof extends to
19ft and the central chamber has three recesses which contain massive stone basins
that are thought to have been receptacles for cremated remains, but they may also
have had other ceremonial functions. Many of the orthostats or standing stones lining
the passage-way are decorated. The eastern recess shows the most decoration and
once again this points to sunworshipping as the sun rises in the east.
The pre-Celtic inhabitants had no written language. This has lead to the thinking that
the artwork at Newgrange, comprising mainly of three-dimensional geometric designs,
must have described the world in which they lived. Their complex patterns of loops,
spirals, diamonds, zig zags and lozenges reveals a concern for harmony and balance of pattern, rather than with
anthropological / representational art; and in this sense, it seems quite spiritual in nature. Some interpretations of the
symbols give substance to the argument that its builders were probably sunworshippers. The suggestion that Aonghus was a
sun deity lends further support to this interpretation.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 139 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (20:10) * 30 lines
Natural Features
Newgrange, on the ridge of Brugh na Bóinne, lies between the valleys of the Boyne river and
the little tributary river Mattock. On the ridge, each mound is set on the top of a knoll, as it may
have been necessary for ritual purposes to set the mound on a high point. The site is a
splendid vantage point looking straight down on the Boyne, which is one of the great rivers of
Ireland, flowing through a fine fertile valley.
Newgrange was first brought to broad modern attention after 1699 by the Welsh antiquarian,
Edward Lloyd. Until then, it was simply a huge, yet somehow 'magical' grass-covered mound.
The landscape of Ireland is peppered with many such mounds, also known as Sídhe.
The Valley of the Boyne is effectively the Northern boundary of the Central lowland plain of
Ireland. To the North lies the undulating hill country of County Louth, and the line of drumlins
which mark the borders of old Ulster. The drainage basin of the river Boyne coincides with the
fertile pastureland of County Meath where, today, grazing cattle, coppiced woodland and
prosperous farms help to create a scene not unlike the Cheshire Plain on the opposite side of
the Irish Sea.
But six thousand years ago, this was all forest. If we stand on the top of Newgrange and look about us in every direction, we
overlook a basin of about 50 square kilometres before rising ground cuts off our view. Then if we imagine this basin as
completely cleared of trees, we can get some idea of the kind of clearance that would have been required to produce a
Neolithic farming community large enough to undertake the enormous task of building the complex of monuments at Brugh
na Bóinne.
By about five thousand years ago, everyone working within this radius could either see the monuments, or feel that he ought
to be able to see them, and could have a sense of devotion or commitment to these mysterious and sophisticated structures,
which were constructed more than a thousand years before the pyramids of Egypt.
http://www.paddynet.com/island/newgrange/natural.html#ridge
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 140 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (21:28) * 1 lines
this is neat!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 141 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (22:51) * 1 lines
Never been there, but I most assuredly would like to go there. Wolfie, you'd love it!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 142 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Mar 1, 2000 (13:17) * 71 lines
Barrows, chambered tombs and other antiquities in Stonejeng's immediate area:
http://www.amherst.edu/~ermace/sth/nearby.html
In Stonehenge's Vicinity
Although Stonehenge is a world-famous site, other "henges," stone (or wood) circles, and barrows abound in the area
surrounding "the Henge." Here is a map of the area around Stonehenge.
Barrows
Barrows are ancient burial chambers. There are two main types of barrows: long barrows, built in the Neolithic Period (4000
BCE - 2500BCE) and round barrows, built in the Bronze Age (2000 BCE - 1000 BCE). Stonehenge I, the first stage of
construction at Stonehenge, when it was just the Bank and Ditch (see map.), goes back to the time of the long barrows.
However, Stonehenge IV, the "version" that is most famous today, was built at a time when the round barrows were on the
declin e.
Long Barrows: Long Barrows can be found in Wessex and Sussex, and also in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. They are most
numerous in the immediate area of Stonehenge. They were used for the burial of important people. Excavation shows that
the pe rson was kept above ground for a time, perhaps on top of a platform, until others died, and the bodies could be put in
the barrow and the barrow covered over with earth.
The Entrance to West Kennet Long Barrow
Photo Credit: Emily Mace.
Round Barrows: Round barrows, built at the time of Stonehenge IV, also surround the area of Stonehenge. In fact, within
the Henge's Bank and Ditch are two round barrows. There are four types of barrows: bowl, bell, pond, and disc. As with the l
ong barrows, round ones only housed important People buried in these barrows often had their possessions about them:
daggers, bronze maces, stone battle-axes, in the graves of the men, and in the graves of women, bead necklaces and other
ornaments. Origi nally bodies were buried in a crouched position, but later bodies were cremated.
Clusters of Barrows:
Normanton Down
King Barrows
Winterbourne Stoke cross-roads
Henges
Besides Stonehenge, there are three other monuments in the area which have earned the designation of "Henges:"
Woodhenge, Coneybury Henge, and Durrington Walls. Nothing except marks on the earth remains of these barrows, but
their existence has been disc overed by aerial photography, which revealed the post holes and the various ditches and
embankments.
Woodhenge:
Today they have filled in the post-holes with cement posts about waist high. Like Stonehenge, it had an outer bank, which,
like so many of these monuments, is very much flattened by ploughing. It was built about 2300 BCE. Inside the ditch were six
concentric oval rings, which once held wooden posts. Near the center there is a small grave, in which the body of a
three-year old with a split skull was found. Archaeologists think it was a dedicatory burial, and as such it would be t he only
evidence of human sacrifice in Neolithic Britain. The original use of the posts, whether as supports of a roof, or otherwise, is
unknown. Symbolic axe-heads found in two of the outer rings suggest that it was a temple.
Woodhenge. Source: Atkinson, p. 33.
Coneybury Henge:
All that remains of this henge, too, is a bank and ditch surrounding post holes and other pits. Some pits contain pottery. It
appears to have been used only a short time before it was abandoned, around 3500 BCE.
Durrington Walls:
This monument consisted of a huge oval bank 30 m wide, which too has been largely damaged by plowing. There were two
entrances on opposite sides. Inside the circle were two circular timber structures, one to the north, one to the south. In the
photos below, the left-hand drawing shows the northern structure, the right the southern. They are both only possible
reconstructions.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 143 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Mar 1, 2000 (13:19) * 2 lines
The Durrington Walls structures look smaller by comparison with Woodhenge, but in fact they are huge. Woodhenge is intimate and would fit in one's side yard.
Well, almost...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 144 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Wed, Mar 1, 2000 (13:22) * 1 lines
isn't it strange how they all use circles as their basis for construction? (does this play into it at all?)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 145 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Wed, Mar 1, 2000 (13:23) * 1 lines
speaking of side yards, on hgtv, one show visited a garden where the owner built a mini stone henge. he uses a lot of celtic influences in his garden. it was quite lovely.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 146 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Mar 1, 2000 (13:44) * 0 lines
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 147 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Mar 1, 2000 (13:52) * 36 lines
The latest insult to Stonehenge - from The Times
Good News: this page seems to have had an effect!
Thanks to the effect of much campaigning and many letters sent through this page in 1996, the disastrous plans for
Stonehenge have been dropped. However, an equivalently barbaric project is being carried out in America with regard to
the traditional native Apache Indian peoples. http://www.wolflodge.org/urgentnews/apache1.htm has teh details.
John Birchall writes to us to say "Independent p.3 on Friday (June 6) gave the new alternative plans for Stonehenge which
involve Madame Tussauds paying for removal of modern accretions and grassing over of nearby road; new carpark; and
in return Mdme Tussauds would get the right to run a commercial 'interpretation centre'. Access to the monument to be
free of charge and unrestricted; the Independent billed it as a populist move motivated by the new government. I am sure
your faxes were worthwhile - it is important for us to constantly remind quango's (English Heritage included) that they are
under public scrutiny, even if unelected. I am writing to The Chairman of English Heritage to express support - this should
also help to keep them up to the mark!
July 20 1996 GENERAL NEWS Stonehenge to be £163.65m theme park
STONEHENGE is to become a £163.65 million theme park using private investment and lottery cash. The plan
includes a visitors' centre with a virtual reality tour, shops, restaurants and a monorail to the stones (Peter Foster
writes).
For the first time, English Heritage, which is responsible for the monument, will use the Government's Private
Finance Initiative under which business puts up part of the money. The centre, with 8,000 square metres of floor
space and parking for 3,000 cars, is expected to attract 1.8 million visitors a year, nearly double the present
number. Finances permitting, work should start next year and be completed by the end of the decade.
Opponents say that the plan will destroy Stonehenge's mystical appeal. Paul Sample, a Liberal Democrat Wiltshire county councillor, said: "This abhorrent commercialism is out of keeping."
Click here if you want to write a letter of protest
mailto:remote-printer.Department_of_National_Heritage_re_Stonehenge@441712116210.iddd.tpc.int,latrobe@mistral.co.uk,441719733001@faxaway.com
to the UK Department of National Heritage and English Heritage. It will get printed on their fax machines:
remember to give your snail mail address or fax number for reply - Please mark it re: STONEHENGE - and ask for a reply!
click here to write a letter of protest to the UK Department of National Heritage and English Heritage. latrobe@mistral.co.uk
Mark it Re: PLEASE FORWARD - Re: STONEHENGE and I (David Pinnegar) will manually fax it to them - remember to give your snail mail address or fax number for reply - and don't forget to ask for a reply!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 148 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (15:17) * 66 lines
More Africa archeology - and Stone Heads!!!
Stone heads recall Africa's forgotten past
By: Matthew Bunce
Broadcasted on BICNews 10 February 1998
GOHITAFLA, Ivory Coast (Reuters) - When Bernadette Vouinan tripped over a rock with eyes and a nose in 1982, she unearthed one of the first of more than 1,000 ancient stone head sculptures to emerge from Ivory Coast's pre-historic soil.
The origin of the heavy granite and laterite stones of up to three feet high and 2,000 years old remains a mystery. But some villagers have no doubts, even challenging theories on East Africa's Rift Valley as the cradle of mankind.
``We believe they were created and placed in the earth here by God,'' said one farmer in the remote Marahoue valley in central Ivory Coast where many of the heads have been found. Such lore attributes flattened rocks found there to the creator's footprints as he stepped back to heaven.
Farmers are often less star-struck, selling any heads they find to tourists for a pittance.
Ivorian anthropologists staging an exhibition in the commercial capital Abidjan this month hope to dispel myths and spur a wider interest in promoting Africa's forgotten past.
``It means we have had art for a long time,'' said leading anthropologist Georges Niangoran-Bouah, chief researcher on Marahoue. ``And where there is art there is civilization.''
The problem is that West Africa's tropical climate means clues to history often rot, leaving only rich oral tradition.
GOD'S TEST-BED FOR HUMANS
``We Africans say man was not made in a day. And the most important part of man is the head,'' Niangoran-Bouah told Reuters.
Folklore says the myriad facial designs -- many Marahoue heads have no mouth, nose or eyes -- are but one sign of God's use of Marahoue as a human test-bed. Later carvings with busts and full figures show man's head at one third rather than one seventh of his height.
``African artists think God must have made a mistake,'' said Niangoran-Bouah, holding a giant-nosed head nicknamed Charles de Gaulle, one of his garden collection of 200 stones.
The faces, once used in mask rituals, are said to have been buried by God to protect women and children from seeing them.
But some village wives have more pressing domestic concerns.
``They are very good. They withstand the heat,'' said one cook who was using three around a fire to support her pots at Diacohou.
BEFORE OUR ANCESTORS
The heads have yet to be accurately dated but similar stones in Senegal date back as far as 2,000 years.
``No one knows what role the heads played in ancient times,'' Niangoran-Bouah said.
``They are not the work of men known to us or our ancestors,'' said Ta-bi-Tra, a hunter at Gohitafla, now inhabited by Ivorian President Henri Konan Bedie's ruling Baoule tribe. Baoule warriors arrived there under Queen Abla Pokou in the 17th century, displacing Gouro tribes who in turn had pushed out the Wan culture in the 15th century.
``The Wan consider them to be ancestral objects,'' said Niangoran-Bouah, citing the stories of nearby Wan descendants, including a theory that the heads betrayed them to the enemy.
The heads are also seen as grave charms for Wan warriors, homes for dead mens' souls or guardian spirits and talismans.
``We make offerings for a safe voyage, to find a good partner or fight off evil sorcerers, eaters of souls, jealous people and poisoners,'' said one soothsayer. ``We trust them.''
Animal sacrifices in cult rituals ensured successful childbirth and stone heads still play a part in ritual exorcisms and purification of adulterers. One man described being inhabited by a spirit from stones surrounding his house. ``I have 13 children, they all come from the stones.''
Prehistoric stone heads have been found around the world, from Africa to Europe and America. Marahoue's are thought to be among the largest and oldest along Africa's Atlantic coast.
Ivorian standing stones are larger than average and found deeper in the ground than similar African examples, suggesting a greater age of up to 7,000 years, Niangoran-Bouah said.
Such African megaliths weighing between half a ton and 15 tons are found in a northwestern strip on the Mediterranean and pockets in a wide west-east sub-Saharan band between Senegal and Kenya. Villagers showed Reuters a 19-foot rock said to be one of the largest African megaliths.
In Mali, to the north, anthropologists have been baffled by the Dogon culture's ability to predict cycles of an invisible satellite of the star Sirius, which appears every 60 years. The Dogon, whose God Amma is said to have thrown a ball of clay into space to create Earth, is just one example of deep civilization in Africa often brushed over by colonists.
``This civilization before the pre-colonial period honorsour country,'' Niangoran-Bouah said. ``During colonial times the stones were probably kept hidden in the forest. The whites did not see them.''
That, for better or worse, is no longer the case.
© Copyright 1998, Reuters News Service
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 149 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (16:26) * 1 lines
Amazing stuff. Maggie! Are there pictures anywhere that you know of? Or shall I make myself useful and search for them?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 150 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (16:53) * 2 lines
I haven't found any pics to go with this yet - there weren't any on the site.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 151 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (17:00) * 1 lines
Guess I'd better get on it...whilst you get on with exorcising, exercising or just plain doing your PhD stuff (technical talk gets me all excited for the hunt for stone head pictures...)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 152 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (17:19) * 1 lines
(actually I've been trying to earn some money! Maybe I'll be able to get a good camera to take nice pics with)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 153 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (17:27) * 1 lines
Make it a digital and you will have the best of both worlds without having to worry about running out of film! (Still trying to get on your web thingy so I can join and give you credit, but I cannot - they are overhauling their website and told me to come back later.)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 154 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (18:26) * 2 lines
(I should be getting check from them soon - maybe it'll save my marriage! oops the phone bill's enormous again)
I'm a bit wary of getting only a digital camera not an ordinary one - I think I need both, oh yes, and a camcorder, wish, wish, wish
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 155 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 2, 2000 (19:05) * 1 lines
*Sigh* Yes, I know...!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 156 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Sat, Mar 4, 2000 (01:29) * 5 lines
Fascinating about the stones in Africa! I had never heard of Newgrange before, either. Still learning a lot around here...
A digital camera and camcorder are on my wish list, *after* a negative/slide scanner. I have a lot of prints/slides that I want to scan in to put on my web page, but the hand scanner I have is such a pain. It also doesn't give as good an image as the ones scanned from the original film.
I still love my old SLRs, especially while digital cameras and photo quality printers are still evolving.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 157 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 4, 2000 (01:43) * 2 lines
You can't beat the old SLR's for sharpness, septh of focus and versatility. Iki's digital is about like an SLR and he has taken incredible pictures with it.
I am delighted to see you tonight...I was talking to myself for a while!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 158 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Sat, Mar 4, 2000 (02:02) * 7 lines
Thanks, Marcia! Things were quiet at work for a little while, but now it's back to the usual hectic pace. (I just found out that Lucent is spinning off my group and a few others as a separate company. Looks like end of Sept. timeframe. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, yet.)
I'll try to check in on weekends, at least...when I'm procrastinating from homework. (I'm taking a C++ class that ends in May. It's fun, but it keeps me busy.)
I love all the info about the different henges!
It's almost 2am here, so I guess I better sign off for now. 'Night!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 159 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 4, 2000 (02:18) * 1 lines
G'night Ginny! Henges are my fav topic! Later!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 160 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Mar 5, 2000 (15:47) * 28 lines
Four miles north of Hereford, adjacent to the River Lugg, a tributary of the River Wye, are the Suttons. Two small villages, located a mile or so to the south west of the Iron Age hillfort of Sutton Walls, they have long been associated with King Offa of Mercia, who ruled this powerful Saxon kingdom from 757 to his death in 796. Offa’s Dyke, the vast earthwork that marked Mercia’s western borders, is just a few miles away. And there is historical evidence to suggest that, three years before the end of Offa's reign, he came to a royal vill, or palace, in a place called Sutton. But no archaeological proof of its precise location has ever been found.
The area around the Suttons is rich in archaeological sites. The Sutton Walls hillfort has earthworks on a scale comparable with Maiden Castle. There is evidence of both Roman and Saxon occupation in the vicinity. And a medieval manor house, Freen's Court, complete with fishponds, artificial water channels, dams, a lake and a moat, is known to have existed on the site -- giving landscape expert Stewart Ainsworth more than his usual share of exciting ‘lumps and bumps’ to get worked up about when he arrived on the scene.
Then, perhaps most exciting of all, there were the tantalising results of an aerial photographic survey carried out in 1990. This produced some remarkable pictures of previously unrecorded parch marks on the grassy meadow next to the River Lugg and adjacent to the former manor house structures. These showed what appeared to be a series of post holes or stone pads on which posts would have been mounted to support a large aisled building. This could have been built of timber or stone and appeared to consist of up to nine bays, each approximately four metres wide. Next to this were further parch-mark outlines of a ‘multi-celled’ building, up to 60 metres in length and 10 metres wide.
Could either of these structures have been associated with King Offa's palace? Comparison with similar sites at Northampton and elsewhere suggested the structures may have had a Saxon origin. Certainly English Heritage was sufficiently convinced by the possibility to declare the whole area a scheduled ancient monument. With only a dozen Anglo-Saxon palace sites ever having been positively identified in Britain, the discovery of a thirteenth would have been a major archaeological find indeed.
As so often in this series, Time Team was treading new ground with this programme. The Project Design -- basically a very detailed breakdown of the proposed investigation of the site, which has to be approved by English Heritage in advance of any excavation of a scheduled ancient monument -- had been prepared not by the Team but the county archaeologist, Keith Ray. Time Team had worked with him before in his previous post, at Plympton in the 1999 series, and he was to act as project director on this occasion. He also brought along his deputy, Tim Hoverd, as excavation director and a team of experienced local diggers to work alongside the Team's usual crew. An English Heritage inspector, Paul Stamper, was present throughout to keep an eye on things and ensure that the Project Design was adhered to.
A diary of each day's dig, together with photos and details of some of the artefacts found was kept on the Timesite website [http://www.timesite.co.uk], which ran ‘live’ with the excavations as they took place last October. Suffice to say here that, as ever, things did not run exactly according to plan. For a start, a geophysics survey carried out by English Heritage eight years previously turned out not to be as useful as it might have been because the all-important grid reference details to locate it precisely had gone missing. Then the long, wet grass resulted in confusing readings being produced by Time Team's own geophysics survey. And to cap it all, after a half-day delay before the first turf could be lifted, all the digging in the main trenches -- involving the shifting of 17 tonnes of material, it was estimated -- had to be done by hand because permission to excavate scheduled ancient monuments stipulates that no machines can be used.
In fact, none of the excavations at the Suttons yielded artefacts or structures that could be definitively dated to the Saxon period. Trench One, a section cut through an earthwork bank, produced no finds at all, turning out to be part of a dam associated with the various water features that once stood on the site. Trench Two, when it finally got underway, quickly produced a stone post pad, but as Mick Aston suspected when it first emerged, it was of a later date. And Trench Three contained plenty of building material, nearly all of it post-medieval. The massive Trench Four was later dug on the site of a knoll some 300 metres from the main site, and two further trenches were later put in the area of an enclosure ditch and platform by the village church.
It was not until relatively late in the excavations that Trench Two uncovered an early wall, which could be dated by the presence of a piece of an earthenware cooking pot to the 12th century or earlier. And Trench Two saved up its buried treasures until the very last, when the charred remains of a wooden floor were discovered late on the final day. These were radio-carbon dated to almost 1,000 years ago, about the same age as the pottery sherd from Trench Two and another found in Trench Four.
Then, with the Team’s investigation winding down at the end of the third day, came the revelation that the post pads in Trench Two did not line up with the parch marks on the aerial photographs. In fact, there were signs of post holes on a slightly different alignment, something far more consistent with a high-status Saxon building -- such as a palace. There was no proof, of course, that this was what it was, but as Tony Robinson summarised, it was certainly ‘a strong candidate’ for future archaeological investigations to focus on.
The murder of Aethelbert and the founding of Hereford
In the bloody and tumultuous times of the late eighth century, both murders and marriages were common among the conflicting royal dynasties of Anglo-Saxon England. The surprise Viking raid on the monastic community of Lindisfarne in 793 gave an added spur to efforts to bring together and strengthen the different kingdoms, and King Offa of Mercia was always seeking out opportunities to enhance his own position.
In 792, King Aethelred of Northumbria had married Offa’s daughter, Princess Aelflaed. Then, in 794, King Aethelbert of East Anglia visited the Mercian court at the Sutton palace, with a view to marrying another of Offa’s daughters, Princess Aelfryth. There are various accounts of what happened next, ranging from the largely factual account in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle to the heavily embroidered reports contained in the hagiographies of the saints, dating from the 12th century and later. What is certain is that Offa had Aethelbert executed. One of these Lives of St Aethelbert took up the story thus:
‘Aethelbert, the holy and Christian King of the East Angles goes into Mercia to seek the hand of King Offa’s daughter Aelfryth. He is lodged in the royal vill called Sutton [hospitatur in regia villa Suttun nominata] where he has a vision, prefiguring his martyrdom. Offa is persuaded by his wicked wife Coenfryth and an East Anglian exile Winberht, that Aethelbert is plotting against him and allows Winberht to cut off his head. Aelfryth, horrified, makes a vow of virginity and declares her intention to become a hermit at Crowland.
‘On Offa’s orders, the body is thrown into a marsh beside the River Lugg [in paludem prope ripam Lugge fluminis]. As a result of a vision, Berhtferth, Offa’s chamberlain, and his friend Ecgmund retrieve the body and take it in an ox-cart to a place called Fernlage, by the River Wye [ad locum qui Fernlage dicitur propter ripan fluminis Waege]. They raise and wash the body and, after a long search, the head, and take it on the cart as instructed by the vision, but -- as pre-ordained by God, the head falls off the cart at a place called Lyde [Luda]; a blind man stumbles upon the head, recovers his sight and chases after the cart, catching it at Shelwick [Sceldwica]. The martyr's body is buried in a place marked with a column of light, and a minster is built on the venerated site.
‘This place ... was once called Fernlage ... but the name was afterwards changed ... [and] ... was called Hereford.’
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 161 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 5, 2000 (16:08) * 3 lines
This is such great stuff. We Need to have this program in the US. I have been to Offa's Dyke. Re the Suttons, I expected Sutton Hoo to be nearby, but I was on the wrong side of the Island!
Please check that link again. I could not make it work!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 162 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Mar 5, 2000 (16:18) * 4 lines
The URL is right, but it doesn't work.
Try http://www.channel4.com/nextstep/timeteam/update.html
The link to timesite is on there.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 163 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 5, 2000 (16:35) * 1 lines
Oh Boy! That link works just fine! Splendid and there are all sorts of goodies on that webpage. Mahalo plenty!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 164 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 5, 2000 (17:44) * 3 lines
If you have downloaded Quicktime, by all means go to this url and take a sweep around the diggings. It is fantastic!
http://www.channel4.com/nextstep/timeteam/2000waddon.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 165 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (12:25) * 5 lines
To all who have contributed on this page,
I'd like to say "HI" to all those who share an intellectual interest in this subject and I hope to visit again and share anything of interest which I may find during my studying.
I'm now off to watch Time Team. Let you know how it goes.
Bye.
From viola.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 166 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (12:28) * 1 lines
Hi viola, nice to meet you - come again soon!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 167 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (12:29) * 1 lines
oops - scrap that - it's maggie on viola's machine!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 168 of 1283: spanna (spanna) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (13:13) * 2 lines
hi viola and maggie! how was time team? anything interesting happen?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 169 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (14:27) * 21 lines
Time Team found a Roman temple in sight of the Millennium Dome, near London.
The Time Team dig gets underway in Greenwich Park, the oldest of Britain's royal parks and birthplace of Henry VIII:
Henry VIII was born there, Elizabeth I played in its gardens and the meridian line runs right through it. Greenwich Park, in sight of the Millennium Dome in south London, is the oldest royal parkland in Britain, having first been enclosed in 1433. That means that, despite later landscaping, many archaeological features remain there, untouched by the buildings and other developments that have covered up most of the rest of London. Various earthworks are readily visible within the park boundaries, including a large number of Saxon barrows and a mound, surrounded by iron railings, that has long been associated with Roman remains on the site.
These remains were the subject of excavations during 1902-3. But all that was visible to visitors almost a century later were a few Roman tesserae, or mosaic fragments, stuck together in a clump of concrete. The precise locations of the three trenches dug at the beginning of the 1900s had not been properly recorded, and many of the finds made at the time had since disappeared. Nevertheless, enough had been discovered then to indicate the presence here of an important Roman structure. One of Time Team's principal objectives was to try to find out what it was.
The previous week's programme in search of King Offa's palace at the Suttons, near Hereford, had seen the Team's long-suffering geophysics surveyors joshed over their inability to give Phil a quick and exact location in which to dig his trench. One of their difficulties -- that the long, wet grass was interfering with the megnetronomy results -- led to one unkind visitor to the Time Team website forum asking whether this was geophysics' equivalent of Railtrack's 'wrong leaves on the line' type of excuse. Greenwich delivered further grist to the mill of those who like to tease John Gater, Chris Gaffney and Co when the geofizzers declared that on this occasion their readings were being upset not only by the metal railings that surrounded the few visible Roman remains, but also by the fact that the ground was too dry. 'Let's hope for rain,' they announced, to the general dismay of the rest of the Team.
The railings were taken down, but nothing could be done about the dry ground. This resulted in Chris Gaffney resorting to an unorthodox, but effective, method of locating the line of Roman walls beneath the surface. This involved tapping on the ground with an upturned pickaxe and judging the presence of stone beneath the surface by the change in sound. Meanwhile, some cynics questioned whether geophysics was needed at all, since the 'parch marks' in the grass provided clearly visible evidence of underlying structures anyway. 'Just dig on the dry bits,' as Tony Robinson's new archaeological dictum had it.
These marks indicated the presence of a substantial rectangular structure on the site. The nature of the finds made in 1902-3, which included more than 400 coins, high-quality pottery and statuary, had also suggested some sort of high-status building. Time Team wanted to confirm that the rectangular structure was indeed of Roman origin, and to find out whether the building had been a temple, a villa or a military or other establishment.
Two finds in particular, both made on the third day, were to provide important evidence. A Roman roof tile was found in Trench Two, which had been set up under Carenza's supervision on the line of the rectangular enclosure and soon revealed a Roman wall not far beneath the surface. The tile was inscribed with the letters PPBR, standing for Procurator of the Province of Britannia. The beginning of the letter L, which also appeared on the edge of the tile, was thought to stand for Londinium. The procurator was the second most important official in Roman Britain, responsible for much of the province's finances, military supplies and transport. The presence of his stamp on the tile indicated that there had been an important public building on the site associated with Roman London.
An even more significant find was made in the small Trench Five, on the west side of the mound. This comprised a piece of broken limestone on which the letters MIN and ILIV could be made out in two rows, one above the other. A further three letters CVS formed part of a third row underneath. The presence of the letters MIN led to immediate speculation that it referred to the Roman goddess Minerva. One of Time Team's Roman experts, Guy de la Bédoyère, was called upon to feed the letters into his computer database of inscriptions from Roman Britain to identify the words in which they appear most often.
Minerva turned out not to be the most likely word. Rather the inscription in which the letters MIN were most likely to be found was determined to be ET NUMINEB AUG, referring to the spirits or deity of the emperors. The letters ILIV were most likely to be found as part of the name CAECILIVS, and the letters CVS as part of the name PRISCVS. Both were common Roman names and Mark Hassall, Britain's foremost authority on Roman inscriptions, explained that the stone had probably been part of a dedication to the gods, perhaps placed there by a wealthy patron by the name of CAECILIVS PRISCVS.
Whatever the exact explanation, the discovery added weight to the other evidence from this and the 1902-3 excavations that this had been the site of a Roman temple. Because of its location on high ground on the line of Watling Street, the main Roman highway from Canterbury and the south east, it would have formed an important and readily visible landmark as that road approached London.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 170 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (14:30) * 1 lines
Spanna, we enjoyed Time Team, you should have seen it! All the info has been included on the page- Enjoy!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 171 of 1283: spanna (spanna) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (14:40) * 2 lines
hi viola and maggie! how was time team? anything interesting happen?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 172 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (15:33) * 1 lines
hi viola and spanna!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 173 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (16:14) * 2 lines
Imagine my delight as Mama of this site to find my baby has not only grown up but is walking all by herself! Welcome all - and most especially to the "Frieds of Maggie" club. I am counting on your on-site-in-Britain accounts to made immediate the stuff I can only copy from the web and gather out of my memory banks. Feel free to take shoes off and make yourself comfortable. Again,
E komo mai - welcome!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 174 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (16:27) * 1 lines
Been to Greenwich and I am trying to imagine where this dig is happening. There are lots of open grassy spaces there abouts and it is quite lovely, even on a leaden-skied late May day with the dank chill coming off the Thames. Viola, Spanna...Most delighted that you share our interest in Antiquities and will help add to my knowledge of the local digs....*wishful sigh* (Maggie, you are too funny! Welcoming Viola from her own computer. *lol* I wondered if traffic was so slow in here that she had to welcome herself!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 175 of 1283: Wolf (wolf) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (21:05) * 1 lines
i know, that's what i thought!! viola was talking to herself....
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 176 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (21:12) * 1 lines
(Maggie sent me an email requesting I remove the Viola-to-Viola welcome, but by that time I had posted my comment and left it as she posted it.) Silly Me!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 177 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Mar 14, 2000 (02:21) * 1 lines
I forgot to log in - classic mistake, I felt really silly!!!. We were having fun! We posted the origianal message at uni then went off and watched time team and came back to uni and posted it in for you. We thought of you all as we paddled (well, they did - I'm too old and the sea was too cold!) in the sea at West Wittering (isn't that a lovely name *lol*). Lots of flint on the beach but no interesting fossils, although viola found a rock with a hole in it which has dark crystals glinting inside. We were looking for rose quartz. (wrong topic, but i thought you'd like to know!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 178 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Mar 14, 2000 (12:59) * 2 lines
Viola found a geode. Merlin's Crystal Cave! How exquisite. I am envious! I need a beach with something beside lava granules. crushed coral or peridots all over it. You have to row to get to the nearest Telly?! (I know abut you, and NO WAY are you too old for anything!!!) Thanks for the teaser, though. Looking forward to more Time Team reports. Thanks, Maggie! *hugs*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 179 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (11:11) * 1 lines
Oh that's what a geode is, I never knew and meant to ask.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 180 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (13:14) * 1 lines
Geode is a cavity (often entirely enclosed) which has perfect crystals formed in that space. They range from tiny with minute crystals to ones the size of large tubs and larger still. I have several of differing size with all sorts of crystal (one type for each geode) - usually of the quartz family.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 181 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (15:51) * 1 lines
I remember seeing a beautiful geode in my grade school science class. It was about 6" across and filled with amethyst crystals.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 182 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (16:15) * 1 lines
They commonly are amethysts and two of mine are, as well. Plus parts of some which must have been absolutley staggeringly huge!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 183 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (16:18) * 1 lines
Staggeringly huge -- would that be anything like having your own cave if you had the whole geode?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 184 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (16:24) * 1 lines
From the merest hint of an arc on the largest one, I'd say yes - I am fairly small boned and can curl up into a small ball and tuck my long legs in, too. Not enough for a large man, I think, but Merlin in the Crystal Cave would have fit in just fine! Imagine finding one like that and opening it just enough to get inside! Incredible!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 185 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (16:28) * 1 lines
The boy Merlin would have fit; but if I remember the Mary Stewart books correctly, didn't he grow up to be rather tall?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 186 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 16, 2000 (17:28) * 1 lines
Yes, but also some native Britain in him (Welsh) gave him light bone structure - much like the sort of Briton from which I spring. Of course, when the power was on him he rose to awesome stature...and paid for the privilege with a hangover of monumental proportions! I love those books, and I got shouted down by those posting with me in Books conf / Arthurian. *sigh* Those who must speed read and cast aside what which they cannot are missing out on so much!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 187 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (00:05) * 5 lines
I never knew what a geode was, either. Now I have a great picture in my mind of Merlin lying inside one...
Marcia already knows I loved Mary Stewart's books, too. I didn't find her books difficult to read, but then I'm no speed reader by any means. Does that mean I can't talk about Stewart when I finally get to that Arthurian topic??
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 188 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (14:43) * 1 lines
Ginny, you gotta talk on the Arthurian topic! I was the only one in there upholding the Merlin Trilogy (which I adore) and trying to get Amy to read them. John, who had already read them for course work in college, accused me of evangelizing...so outnumbered and alone in the disucssion, I quit. Please come back and let us discuss it!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 189 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (14:46) * 1 lines
David (my non-bookreading-for-pleasure son) and his father read them at the same time I did per my recommendation. We all loved them. Must be the speed readers of the world who cannot be bothered. They miss so much!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 190 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (15:59) * 1 lines
Oops I'm out of this - which trilogy?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 191 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (17:00) * 1 lines
The trilogy in question takes the Arthurian legend and tells it from Merlin's point of view. It is a well- researched work and gripping reading. The best of its sort extant, IMHO. The books are in paperback (she is a Scotswoman) and consist of "The Crystal Cave," "The Hollow Hills," and "The Last Enchantment" followed by another taking the Mordred theme, "The Wicked Day." Author is Mary Stewart. If you have time for reading frivilous things, this set is splendid! I have read mine so many times that they are falling apart!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 192 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (17:06) * 1 lines
Mmm read it many years ago - will look it out again. Have you read the stephen lawhead pendragon trilogy? Talliesin, Merlin, Authur. I have the first two.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 193 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (17:10) * 1 lines
NO!!! I shall look for them! Oooh, Goody!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 194 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (17:18) * 1 lines
I thought they were good. I had actually thought of sending them to you!!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 195 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (21:33) * 1 lines
If I cannot find them here I shall reimburse you and if that is alright, I will agree. But, let me hunt for them online and here in Hilo, first. Thanks, dear!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 196 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Mar 19, 2000 (14:39) * 22 lines
No time team report tonight - they've got technical problems and it won't be posted on the site until 27th.
More bedtime reading:
Earthworks
Wiltshire between two worlds shared time,
A suspended bridge circling ancient skyline,
Mindscape myriad of standing stones,
Shimmering spectres touched by pagan bones
Retrospective following footsteps of mystic migration
Ceremonial rites hypnotic chanting resonant vibration,
Suspended past turning spiral helix DNA,
Pay silent homage lost spiritual stairway,
Echoed voices woven tapestry threads connect,
Your tribe, my tribe earned respect,
Existing mingled, merged juxtapose yet unresolved,
Open book sentenced to be unsolved.
(Nicola Fowler)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 197 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 19, 2000 (16:11) * 1 lines
Oooh, I love that. Exactly how it is and how it feels!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 198 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Mar 19, 2000 (21:56) * 1 lines
Thought you would. I like poetry!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 199 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar 20, 2000 (14:17) * 2 lines
Wolfie has an entire conference dedicated to poetry...check it out sometime.
Lovely stuff. John has written some excellent stuff he posted in there and he posted one in Geo2 for the first time seen anywhere. It was an incredible privilege!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 200 of 1283: viola (viola) * Wed, Mar 22, 2000 (06:55) * 6 lines
Hi All,
Thankyou for your messages. Yes Maggie, the sea was lovely. Thankyou for a
lovely afternoon!
By the way, there was a brilliant documentary on the other night about the
infamous pirate Blackbeard and his sunken ship which they reckon has been found offshore. If I can download the info from the sight you can
all have a look. Watch this space...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 201 of 1283: viola (viola) * Wed, Mar 22, 2000 (07:03) * 11 lines
Blackbeard's Revenge
Blackbeard the pirate is a figure who seems to belong more to legend than to fact. It is believed that he was English who may have come from Bristol. In order to frighten his enemies and crew, he was known for stuffing smoking fuses in his hair for dramatic effect. In one famous incident, he shot Isreal Hands, one of his most trusted men, in the knee. His excuse was that if he didn't kill one of his crew now and then, they would forget who he was. His ship, the Queen Anne's Revenge, was the most powerful warship and allowed him to rule the waves from the Caribbean to the North Carolina coast. However, this power was short-lived for he had the ship for less than a year before it sank.
According to an eyewitness, this was on the 10th of June 1718 at Beaufort Inlet, North Carolina. The ship had ran aground on a sandbar at the mouth of the inlet. It was obvious from the position of a ship anchor that Blackbeard had made strenuous efforts to pull the ship off but to no avail. It was then left to the elements. Blackbeard, promptly, abandoned some unwanted crewmembers on a barren island. They would have died if a ship hadn't passed by a few days later.
The 'Queen Anne's Revenge' was originally a French vessel called The Concorde. She was transporting African slaves to the Caribbean, when in 1717, Blackbeard had captured her off the island of Martinique. The pirate was fortunate because the Concorde crew were weakened with dysentery and the remaining healthy crewmembers were in no position to defeat the pirates after a long and tiring voyage.
Through the Queen Anne's Revenge and his three other ships, Blackbeard captured some 23 ships and stripped them of anything of value. Just the sight of his flag, which shows a skeleton of the devil carrying a spear and an hourglass, made many ships surrender without a fight. The Royal Navy was helpless because they had just ten ships to police the entire American coastline.
Later in 1718, Blackbeard sought shelter on the island of Ocracoke which is a hundred miles away to the north. On November 21st the pirates came ashore at Springer's Point. It is believed that they met up with other pirates and celebrated the night away. However, two vessels of the Royal Navy were lying in wait and attacked early the next day. Blackbeard fought furiously as he was determined never to surrender.
He died after being shot five times and had 20 sword cuts.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 202 of 1283: viola (viola) * Wed, Mar 22, 2000 (07:05) * 2 lines
I hope this is ok. I thought it was interesting, but there was so much more on the actual programme. It's a pity they have to condense it.
Thankyou Marcia for the information on my rocks. They are sitting at home on the arm of the sofa at the moment. ( I have nowhere else to put them at the moment!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 203 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Mar 22, 2000 (13:38) * 3 lines
Hi viola, nice to see you back again.
Why does it not surprise me that you have nowhere else to put your lovely rock - hee hee! want some suggestions???). (Ignore me I'm just jealous!)
Which programme was that - I think I must have missed the listing.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 204 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Mar 22, 2000 (14:25) * 3 lines
Viola, it might be a migratory rock from Hawaii and bad luck - I think I need to have it here for your safety and for my own collection (only fooling, of course because I am jealous, too)
Had to shoot Blackbeard 5 times? He was as hard to kill as Rasputin was! Thanks for the interesting read. I hope we get the program over here - eventually, as all things always are!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 205 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sat, Mar 25, 2000 (10:58) * 7 lines
The programme was on last monday night on BBC1 and is a series exploring
different subjects. Next week it had something to do with the exploration of Pandora's Box (?) if that means anything to you? The series is called
'Voyages to the Bottom of the Sea'. Enjoy!
The stone is still in the living room. I just hope the insane one doesn't
throw it away, (although that would be a first!) I shall treasure it and keep
my eyes open for any more.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 206 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Mar 25, 2000 (13:22) * 1 lines
Viola, take it to Uni and scan it. Save it as a jpeg file and send it me. Put it on the scanner so the hole is pointing downwards and the scanner light can show up the crystals. I think we're coming down sometime next month so maybe we can go exploring again. Do NOT let the insane one get hold it !!!! Hide it or something. P.S. thump Spanna for me please - with pleasure, and tell her to stop messing with your email or else!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 207 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Mar 25, 2000 (13:38) * 1 lines
Yes, Pandora's Box means something to me The only thing which did not get out was Hope. Famine, pestilence and all those good things did get out! The HMS Pandora is at the bottom of the sea...I wonder if that is the one which they will be exploring?!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 208 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Mar 26, 2000 (15:32) * 8 lines
THE MYSTERY OF THE COCAINE MUMMIES.
The mystery that baffled Egyptologists and called into question whole areas of accepted scientific fact. In 1992, routine tests on a mummy in a Munich museum revealed high body levels of cocaine and nicotine. But such substances were not available in ancient Egypt, as they come from the Americas which were not to be 'discovered' for thousands of years after the passing of the Egyptian dynasties.
Are the mummies fakes? Were the substances from plants that have since disappeared? Or were there trade routes between Egypt and South America that predate accepted chronology?
If you have questions about any of the science subjects raised in the programme, or any other science topic, you can call the experts at Science Line on: 0808 800 4000. All calls are free and lines are open 1pm to 7pm Monday to Friday.
Sorry there isn't more. I have tried to access the site and the time team site as well but so far I have had no luck.
Thankyou for the messages. I will hit spanna very hard and let you know if she bruises.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 209 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar 26, 2000 (15:47) * 2 lines
[Aren't you trying to get Spanna's attention rather than inflicting damage on her?!]
Viola, that is a teasing bit of information there. Most curious to know what they discover!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 210 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (14:18) * 1 lines
It is similar to the mystery concerning the golden peanuts found in an ancient Chinese tomb. Peanuts are New World plants and would have been unknown in China at that time. The golden peanuts were small pieces of gold worked into little sculptures of peanuts.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 211 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (16:06) * 1 lines
Peanuts are native to Brazil. Most interesting! Maybe they have just not found the progenitor of the peanut we know today. There is no reason a similar legume could not have been native to China - many of these plants produce underground nodules which fix nitrogen in the soil.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 212 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (16:21) * 1 lines
It's marine archeology evening here. Just seen underwater exploration in the dead sea looking for Sodom and Gomorrah, and the pandora's box/ship programme Viola talked about. I'll see if I can trace a URL for them as they were both so interesting.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 213 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (16:27) * 1 lines
Thank you for that, Maggie - I'm far too claustrophobic to ever find underwater archaeology fun IRL, but I am fascinated by watching others do it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 214 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (16:35) * 1 lines
I loved the special which ran last year on tv about underwater archaeology concerning the city of Alexandria in Egypt. They found pieces of the Pharos in the harbor.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 215 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (16:53) * 1 lines
Oh yes....and lots of obelisks and other neat stuff. Everything but the Library...but don't get me started on that...*sigh*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 216 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (17:38) * 1 lines
MMmm we had that here too. I couldn't cope with being in a submarine though. I love watching it - but the thought of being shut up and under water - yuk! mind, the thought of being shut up anywhere ........ (Yes, I'm going to bed!!!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 217 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar 27, 2000 (18:22) * 1 lines
G'night Maggie...*lol*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 218 of 1283: viola (viola) * Tue, Mar 28, 2000 (12:57) * 15 lines
Just read all your responses. Sorry, that was all the info that was available
although I was able to get the info on Pandora's Box...
PANDORA'S SECRETS.
On the 28th of August 1792, the HMS Pandora sank off the northern coast of Australia when she had hit a reef, keeled over and sank. She was on her way back to Britain with 14 prisoners but hadn't found any trace of the Bounty. Her mission had started two years previously when she left Britain with orders to arrest the mutineers and bring the Bounty home. In 1789, the first mate, Fletcher Christian, had cast Captain Bligh and 18 others adrift in an open boat. However, the boat wasn't large enough to take all the crew members who wanted no part of the mutiny. Captain Bligh had noted their innocence so these crewmembers greeted the Pandora when it arrived at the island of Tahiti.
However the Pandora captain quickly slapped them in irons. He then sent soldiers to capture the six mutineers who had fled into the mountains. After eighteen days, they were all captured and brought to the ship. The 14 prisoners, guilty and innocent alike, were then caged in a specially built eleven foot wooden cell on the top deck. It was nicknamed Pandora's box and it was like a sauna with only two tiny gratings supplying the only fresh air.
In it's search of the Bounty, the Pandora came within two days sailing of Pitcairn Island where the Bounty mutineers had settled. However the mutineers fate was only revealed to the outside world when they were discovered some fifteen years later.
In the night that the Pandora sank, some thirty-five men lost their lives. The diving team discovered the remains of three men who had gone down with the ship. One of the skeletons was discovered in the Captain's cabin. His skull was intact and forensic anatomist Meiya Sutisno was able to reconstruct his face. It is believed that he was Robert Bowler who was the pursers steward.
The University of Queensland are keen to establish the identity of these three skeletons from the Pandora casualty list. To aid their research, they would like to hear from direct living descendants of the Pandora crew. If you are able to help, please find more details in their website address. It is in our Wrecks and Diving information guide.
The Pandora survivors managed to climb aboard tenders and reach the safety of a sand cay. After two days on the baking sand cay, the survivors climbed into four open boats and Captain Edwards took them to the Dutch island of Timor, a journey of some 1,000 miles. There, they purchased a larger ship and sailed back to England. It had been an epic journey of nearly 30,000 miles. Captain Edwards was court-martialled for the loss of his ship but acquitted. Of the prisoners, six were found guilty and two publicly hung. The remainder were acquitted or pardoned. Today, the descendants of the mutineers of the Bounty still live on Pitcairn Island.
Hope you find this interesting. I wasn't able to watch the programme about Sodom and Gomorrah but I hope it was good.
Gotta go, I shall try and trace Time Team for you.
Bye...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 219 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Mar 28, 2000 (15:14) * 1 lines
Viola, that was not only good..it was spectacular. Thanks for posting it. It is what was indistinctly remembered about the HMS Pandora saga. Time Team has an excellent website with panoramic scenes which are zoomable. Great stuff!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 220 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Mar 29, 2000 (14:01) * 1 lines
Thanks Viola, I didn't get round to looking at the site. I sat curled up in bed watching all this, absolutely enthralled.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 221 of 1283: viola (viola) * Thu, Mar 30, 2000 (15:14) * 3 lines
Ta for your messages.
Please can you tell me if the new Time Team website is available yet as I was unable to access it. Also, I think that the series finished last week!!!!!
Now my Sunday nights will be extremely dull!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 222 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar 30, 2000 (15:57) * 3 lines
Viola, Maggie posted this and it is bookmarked for all time in my Netscape
http://www.channel4.com/nextstep/timeteam/
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 223 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Apr 2, 2000 (15:19) * 3 lines
Thankyou Marcia, that is brilliant!!!!!
By the way, did you get maggie's message from spanna? Her modem is down and will probably be broken for quite a while but she is hoping to visit in a few weeks and will hopefully be able to use the computers here.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 224 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Apr 2, 2000 (15:25) * 1 lines
Yes, thank you! I am shortly to answer her note. Thanks for reminding me. *hugs* to her from me!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 225 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Apr 3, 2000 (05:33) * 1 lines
I'm back on!!!! HI! We took the lid off (the computer silly!) and transferred the modem to another com port, and it seems my comport 1 has died not the modem. hence why I am online at 10.30 in the morning - with permission of course! Thanks Spanna and Viola for keeping me in touch!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 226 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 3, 2000 (15:03) * 1 lines
Aha!!! That is why you are here! Good news. I thought you have "borrowed" someone else's computer for the duration. Welcome back!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 227 of 1283: anne hale (ommin) * Tue, Apr 4, 2000 (08:03) * 1 lines
Is this the relevan spot to report findings of new Sphinxes in Egypt found just recently. Apparently they are in a row forming some form of road. Just a short paragraph reported on our teletext in Oz. Has anyone else more information. It looks quite fascinating what they have found
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 228 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 4, 2000 (08:23) * 1 lines
Thanks Anne, hadn't seen that, will look out for it now.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 229 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 4, 2000 (09:02) * 3 lines
Couldn't find reference to what Anne was saying, but I fouind this site which looks to have some interesting stories of discoveries.
http://www.earthchangestv.com/egypt/index.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 230 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 4, 2000 (14:07) * 3 lines
This is the place. The benefit of living where we get the morning last. It gives everyone else a chance to post neat stuff where I can find it when I awaken. I shall look for the sphinxes, too.
Maggie!!! I think you hit the Mother-lode of goodies. Will post things from that site I am sure. Mahalo, Dear!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 231 of 1283: viola (viola) * Tue, Apr 4, 2000 (16:54) * 10 lines
Hiya folks, just thought that this might interest you. It's the next episode in the series of Voyages to the Bottom of the Sea. This (and much more) can be accessed at www.bbc.co.uk/history.
Cromwell's Forgotten Wreck
In the summer of 1653, Oliver Cromwell sent a fleet of six vessels to finally crush the Royalist uprising in Scotland. One of these ships was the 'Swan' whose mission was to seize Duart Castle, a Royalist stronghold which overlooks the Sound of Mull. When the Swan arrived on the 5th of September 1653, the Royalists had already fled so the Castle put up no resistance.
The ship was sunk, eight days later, during a violent storm. Anchored in the bay, the ship was torn free and the wind drove her repeatedly against the rocks before she sank. She was to be lost for some 300 years before being discovered by a naval diver in 1979.
The Swan had been built in 1641 and started life in the King's service. However in 1645, while their captain was away, the crew did a deal with the Parliamentarians. In a ritual handover, they surrendered their weapons in a pledge of loyalty for Cromwell. The Parliamentarian authorities then ceremonially returned their weapons and the crew sailed for the Parliamentarian cause.
The wreck was identified as the Swan because of a wooden carving which had been raised from the wreck. On it, was the carved badge of the heir apparent to the throne. This proved that the ship had been under the command of Charles I. After sifting through the archives, a letter from the 1600's was discovered which helped pinpoint the wreck's identity. It was from the Scottish Parliamentarian Commander, Robert Lilburn to Oliver Cromwell. Robert Lilburn mentions three Parliamentarian ships including the Swan which were sunk in Scottish waters at this time. However, the Swan was the only one which had been 'captured' from the Royalists. Clearly the wreck must be the Swan.
Now, the wreck is the subject of painstaking research by leading marine archaeologist, Colin Martin, who has written our History of marine archaeology. In order to protect the fragile wreck, it has been designated as a protected wreck which means that there is a exclusion zone around it and no one can dive it without licence
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 232 of 1283: viola (viola) * Tue, Apr 4, 2000 (17:11) * 16 lines
Just found some more interesting info from the same site...
The Black Hand
For over 30 years on a remote and isolated spot on the Cheshire Borders, a strange mound has caused some puzzlement. In 1962, farmer Gerry Fair, first had the idea that it may be of historical importance. Meet the Ancestors took up the baton and soon discovered that this was once the site of a chapel. Cistercian Monks had built an abbey here in 1158 and the fact that they were Cistercian held the key to the chapel's remote location. They loved wild places and part of their ethic was to convert wild, barren places into productive land.
An early 17th century map has the Poulton Chapel still standing, but was probably not used after Henry VIII's Reformation. The chapel and surrounding land had passed on to a local family called the Manleys around the 14th century.
A meeting with amateur genealogist Joyce Cook and a visit to the Cheshire Records Office put Julian Richards firmly on the trail of the Manleys. Carefully maintained local papers and documents, identified wealthy landowner Sir Nicholas Manley's will dated 1520. In it he states "My body will be buried in the chapel of Poulton in the church in the chancel, and after my death and my wife's. A priest to be found to sing there for my soul".
Armed with this new knowledge, Julian went back to locate the chancel. Site archaeologist Mike Emery had already discovered some graves here, but unfortunately the skeletons were not good enough to restore. However, in the middle of the chancel (what would be considered prime spot) a very well-preserved male skeleton had been found. Initial exploration indicated that it was dated around 1500 - the time of the Manleys.
All the bones were carefully removed and taken for analysis to Bradford University. Bone specialist, Charlotte Roberts confirmed the bones belonged to a man measuring 6'3", and probably in his late fifties. This was enough information for medical artist Richard Neeve to begin reconstructing his face.
Meanwhile Joyce Cook had established the Manley family tree from Sir Nicholas in the 1500's to present day. Julian managed to track down Michael Roger Manley, a direct descendant if DNA analysis linked the skeleton in the grave to him. Both Michael and his son Mark left body fluids for DNA testing. Unfortunately the special type of DNA they needed for testing could not be found in any of the bones.
However there was another clue which may have linked them. The Manley family crest was a black hand and it had been suggested by Joyce that the name Manley could have come from the French word "main" meaning hand. Michael and Mark Manley both have very large hands and so did our man in the grave.
Although, not conclusive, many of the pieces of the ancestral jigsaw do fit together, the modern day Manleys may well have found their ancestor.
Footnote:
All of the burials from the Poulton chapel site will, after study, be given a Christian reburial at a Cistercian monastery
Many people have asked if we tried to use DNA to prove the link that had been established by genealogical research. Yes we did. At Glasgow University Dr Will Goodwin is still working on the samples of ancient and modern DNA. This was always going to be difficult though as male lineage can only be determined by using Y chromosone DNA of which there is much less than the mytochondrial DNA that is passed through the female line. Although Y chromosone DNA is widely used to determine paternity, there are great difficulties in trying to use it in a case where as many as 16 transfers from father to son may have taken place.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 233 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 4, 2000 (17:16) * 1 lines
OOOOOOOOOO! Neat stuff. Thanks Viola. Btw, when you want to post a link, put the http:// in front of the www stuff and it will auto-magically make it a hotlink as in http://www.bbc.co.uk/history.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 234 of 1283: anne hale (ommin) * Wed, Apr 5, 2000 (02:51) * 1 lines
That programme Meet the Ancestors' is amazing - I watch it every week. The finds made in U.K. are quite amazing from Roman matron to Anglo Saxon 12 year old girl - this is where we are at present - I shall watch again tonight. The way they make up the skull into a face absolutely amazes me. Thank you to Viola for that special info.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 235 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Apr 5, 2000 (05:33) * 1 lines
I missed the aquatic archeology on monday because of french class and we forgot to record it. Don't suppose you did Viola???
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 236 of 1283: viola (viola) * Wed, Apr 5, 2000 (17:28) * 3 lines
Sorry maggie,
The under water programme was not videoed although we did video meet the ancestors. (Is that any help?)
From viola.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 237 of 1283: viola (viola) * Wed, Apr 5, 2000 (17:39) * 29 lines
2000 series: York
26 March, 6pm
One thousand years of British history in three days
As if trying to discover all that can be discovered about a site in just three days wasn't challenge enough, when the Time Team Live programme went to York in September 1999, the Team set themselves three very different sites to investigate as well. 'I know,' you can imagine some bright spark at the Time Team planning meeting suggesting. 'York has got lots of remains from the Roman, Viking and medieval periods. Instead of choosing between them, why don't we go for all three?' And so it was that Tony Robinson and the team of experts found themselves faced with the challenge of explaining 1,000 years of British history over a sunny late summer weekend.
The three sites explored at York comprised:
A Roman cemetery under the lawn of the Victorian Royal York Hotel next to York railway station. Here the Team uncovered three skeletons -- belonging to a young man, a mature woman and, most poignantly, a four-year-old girl. Next to the young man were chicken bones, the remains of a 'feast for the dead' to mark his passage to the afterlife. Other finds included various coins and fragments of glass, similar to that made in a reconstruction of Roman glass-making techniques carried out for the programme.
A Viking 'tenement block' beneath a derelict plot at Walmgate. Similar to the building found at Coppergate during the 1970s, this excavation produced remains of wattle boundary fences, amber, leather-working and grains, seeds and nuts indicative of the Viking diet. It also yielded a superb glass bead, unlike anything found in Britain before.
The medieval hospital of St Leonard's, in the Museum Gardens by the River Ouse. This site was fully explored, making it possible to locate all the major structures of this large medieval complex. There was also a second world war air raid shelter, uncovered on the 60th anniversary of the outbreak of war and stretching the period covered by the Team excavations in York to the best part of two millennia.
The Team's trip to York was not only covered live on television. Events were reported as they unfolded on the Time Team Live website. By far the most ambitious such project yet attempted in British archaeology on the internet, this attracted hundreds of thousands of visitors during the course of the weekend. Even before the Team got to York, the website was up and running with a wealth of detail about the city, its history, past excavations and sources of further information and reading. And during the weekend, our cyber-team backed up what was appearing on the television screens with a huge range of material covering every aspect of the excavations.
RealVideo snippets revealed off-screen activity, while RealAudio interviews with the Team and other experts gave the lowdown on what was happening at the three main sites and in the incident room. In between the live broadcasts, a diary and regular updates provided detailed reports of what was going on. Questions were answered and discussions took place on the Forum. And photos and information about the finds were posted almost as soon as they were made. You can still access all of this information by exploring the Live web pages and reading through the 'Old Topics' on the Time Team Forum.
York Archaeological Trust is planning to run a training excavation at the St Leonard's hospital site, York (as featured on Time Team), in the summer of 2000. If you would like details of this, information will be posted on the York Archaeological Trust website www.yorkarch.demon.co.uk as soon as arrangements have been finalised; or send a stamped-addressed envelope to:
York Archaeological Trust Training Excavations 2000
Cromwell House
13 Ogleforth
York YO1 7FG
TIM TAYLOR, TIME TEAM SERIES PRODUCER ON THE YORK LIVE EVENT:
The live programme is now a regular event in Time Team's calendar. Because of the pressures and tight time scale, it is ultimate television of a particular kind -- the polar opposite in some ways of the documentary. It involves a huge technical and logistical support team -- more than a hundred staff, camera crews, edit suites, satellite vans, a website team and three teams of archaeologists alongside our presenters: Tony, Sandy Toksvig, our live 'stalwart', and, in York, Paul Thompson.
The financial investment is huge, as is the pressure for the archaeology to deliver. Although Time Team accept that we will not always find what we hope for, and that this is the reality of archaeology and part of the ethos of the programme, the atmosphere of a 'live' makes it difficult if there are too many archaeological dead ends. There were three sites in York and this, and the knowledge that wherever you dig there you are likely to find archaeology, gave us a certain amount of security.
Each transmission for live television has to be a specific length, and must be timed and scripted so that Tony can read the linking pieces to camera that introduce each new section on autocue. From the start, the script assumes a certain progress in the archaeology. The researchers and I try to be as realistic as possible, but there is something slightly unreal about a script, prepared a month before a shoot, that reads: '11-o-clock day one, locate remains of Roman burials on the cemetery site.' Somehow reality, technology and expectation have to be matched up.
The director, Jeremy Cross, has to attempt to keep a grip on the production, transmission and developing story lines, while the researchers, assistant producers and Philip Clarke, the executive producer, adjust the storyline, scripts and autocue pieces to camera so that they show what is actually happening. I keep them aware of where the archaeology is going and push or drag the excavations and discoveries in the direction that is best for the programme. I also have to make sure the archaeology is not misrepresented, which involves negotiating both the speed and the strategy of the excavations with the local archaeologists -- in York they were John Oxley from the City Council, Keith Emerick from English Heritage and the site supervisors, Nick Pearson, Patrick Ottaway and Barney Sloane. I also receive vital information from our Time Team diggers. We need to achieve the programme's archaeological goals without pushing the archaeology further than is appropriate.
On Day Two of the York dig we faced a situation that is typical of the issues that arise on Time Team excavations. A third burial had emerged at the Roman cemetery site and there was also additional evidence from geophysics -- who had, with their usual accuracy, located the first burial site for us. They had found a 'curved shaped' anomaly that might indicate a building. The local archaeologists were convinced that there was not enough time left to excavate both targets. At the end of the day, the key parties -- John Oxley, Keith Emerick, Nick Pearson, Mick Aston and I -- tucked ourselves into a cosy corner at the Royal York Hotel to go over the options. The script team and directors were meeting upstairs to develop the next day's story lines and needed to know, as soon as possible, the direction the archaeology would take. Despite a certain amount of pressure from them, Mick and I were determined to listen to what the archaeologists had to say.
After an hour we arrived at an agreement that allowed the excavation to expand into the new sites but ensured that the excavators would have as much time as they needed to do their job properly and record the results. With Time Team's diggers, York's experienced excavators and Margaret Cox and her team of osteoarchaeologists on hand, we made a good case that the work would be carried out to the highest standards.
This kind of discussion -- balancing programme requirements with archaeological need -- is a regular and vital event on Time Team shoots, and the fact that we achieved this within the pressure of a live programme is a measure of its importance.
A final memory of York illustrating another crucial element to the balancing act that is Time Team was at the end of Day Three. Everyone was exhausted as we approached our last segment of the transmission, at the Roman cemetery. I had walked through all Tony Robinson's next sequences with Phil Harding, Margaret Cox and the other archaeologists, checking responses and giving them a sense of how long they might have for spontaneous chat. When Tony arrived, surrounded by cameramen and sound crews trailing cables and accompanied by his autocue operator, he talked to Margaret about the first two burials and then turned to Phil who would be taking him on to the next trench.
Tony's opening question didn't get the usual obvious answer. Live sequences are usually high on adrenaline and scattered with words like 'amazing' and 'incredible', but Phil had been given space to respond. The crowds of local people who had looked on patiently for three days were attentive. Phil had been watching the excavation of a four-year-old child, who had died in Roman York more than 1,700 years ago. He commented on the smallness of the ribs and Tony told him that the results of DNA tests showed the skeleton was that of a girl. Phil, clearly moved, talked for a few minutes about his feelings about the child's death.
Watching Phil and Tony create that moment -- the cameras and microphones capturing it for transmission to an audience of millions -- was for me a defining event. We hadn't glossed over that small tragedy and rushed to the next item. In a way, the balance Time Team achieves between television and archaeology was encapsulated in that moment -- which happened because of the teamwork of the people who had taken part in the programme, and was made possible by the relationships that had been forged over three days with the local archaeologists and diggers, and the people of York who came in their thousands to see the sites.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 238 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Apr 5, 2000 (18:40) * 1 lines
I can remember looking at York Cathedral from the train as we paused there on the way to Scotland...How I wanted to get out and look around. Alas, there was no time on our packed (by me) itinerary. *sigh* Perhaps one day I will get back and take the time to tour the digs in York. They sound fascinating!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 239 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (04:46) * 1 lines
Thanks for posting that Viola, I totally forgot. I've never been to York , but I'd like to go sometime.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 240 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (12:13) * 12 lines
This appeared in the Sunday Times yesterday. Marcia, I sent you the picture if you want to put it in.
Medieval Zoo found at the Tower of London
Excavation work beneath the ramparts of the Tower of London has revealed new evidence of a medieval menagerie which held an extraordinary array of animals. A dig under the Lion Tower and new research in royal, cathedral and university archives have produced proof that 100 different species were once housed within the walls of the palace. Bones of rhinoceroses, antelopes and tigers have been discovered as well as the skins of snakes and alligators. The remains of ostriches, brought by sailing ship from Africa have also been found. The huge flightless birds died after they were fed nails because their keeper thought that iron was good for them. One was found with 90 nails in its throat.
The menagerie was founded during the Crusades in the reign of King John (1199-1216) and was closed in 1835 when London Zoo opened in Regent’s Park. Never bigger than the size of a ‘largish suburban garden’ according to researcher, the Tower zoo stood beneath what is now the West Tower, near the Thames. Most of the early animals came through kings and some queens of Europe exchanging gifts. ….
The King of Norway sent his polar bear to Henry III in about 1250 and the elephant, a year or so later was from a French monarch, who in turn had taken it from the Middle East. The elephant walked from Kent to the capital, but died after it was plied with wine to keep out the cold. The polar bear fared better, swimming and living off fish in the Thames. A zebra also made it’s way to the Tower and was regularly ridden by a young boy as it paraded around a tiny yard. ‘Sometimes animals had been captured in wars, ‘ said Rory Browne (Professor of History at Harvard) “Captive lions, in particular, really appealed to kings. After all the king himself was the arch beast”. Hence Henry III during whose reign the Tower zoo was substantially built up, had three lions on his coat of arms. ….. Although experts had been aware of the existence of the zoo, the excavations, partly financed by BBC2s Timewatch programme, have revealed extraordinary details of the historic animal residents of one of England’s most famous i
stitutions.
The programme will be shown in the UK on BBC2 on Saturday 15th April at 8 pm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 241 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (14:23) * 3 lines
Maggie's Scanned Photo
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 242 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (16:00) * 7 lines
A man approached a local in a village he was visiting.
"What's the quickest way to York?"
The local scratched his head.
"Are you walking or driving?" he asked the stranger.
"I'm driving."
"That's the quickest way!"
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 243 of 1283: viola (viola) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (16:01) * 1 lines
That is quite bizarre!!!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 244 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (16:10) * 1 lines
How so?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 245 of 1283: viola (viola) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (16:15) * 3 lines
...the story I mean.
By the way, I've just visited the channel 4 website and there are quite a few interesting sites there. The site is http://www.channel4.com , then click on nextstep and you can visit all the history, eg Time Team. There is another good page called To The Ends of the Earth. All are highly recomended.
Also Marcia, did maggie send you a photo of me and spanna? If she did please believe me when I tell you that my teeth are nowhere near as big as they look in the photo.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 246 of 1283: viola (viola) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (16:18) * 2 lines
Oh my goodness!!!!!
I can't believe I'm actually writing to you at the same time as you are writing. Spanna has suggested that I change my pseudonym for a joke so I thought maybe I'd call myself something original...like...bananapants...???
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 247 of 1283: viola (viola) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (16:26) * 4 lines
...AND, for those who are interested, there is an article on http://www.bbc.co.uk/history about the history of Christian art and the images of Jesus. The programme is actually on tonight but for those who can't watch it I hope the website will be satisfactory.
Well gotta go, there is a programme I videoed this evening about the dead sea scrolls which I am going to watch now.
Goodnight!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 248 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (17:57) * 2 lines
The history of the depiction of Jesus is a really interesting topic. The earliest pictorial depictions of Jesus from the Roman Empire show him as a beardless young man. The convention of depicting a bearded Christ came about at about the time of the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire. Jesus was always depicted as a beautiful young man, within the conventions of Byzantine Art. He was shown as having an oval face, wide eyes, a very straight, narrow nose, small mouth, and of course, a beard. Unfortunately, due to the efforts of the Iconoclasts very few icons remain from the Byzantine Empire. One of the most extraordinary and beautiful to survive is Christ Pantocrator from the Monastery of St. Catherine in Sinai. Pantocrator means judge, so Christ is shown holding the Book of Judgement. It is conventional in Eastern Orthodox Christian religious art to present Jesus as Christ the Redeemer or Christ the Judge. The St. Catherine's icon is notable because the the two halves of Christ's face are different. This was in
ended to present both the human and divine natures of Jesus. The icon is also the work of artist of extraordinary talent. As far as I know,the artist is unknown, and was probably one of the monks.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 249 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (19:01) * 1 lines
Don't worry viola the directions to york were for me!! did you see the ark of the covenant programme this evening. i meant to phone you about it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 250 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (19:10) * 1 lines
Hang on... I need to check that link since it will be absolute ages before the US gets the program - if we do at all... Thanks for the URLs and the interesting articles. Now, if I could only get my sticky fingers into the good soil of England and muck about for a while....*sigh*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 251 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (19:21) * 1 lines
well you do it virtually alll the time!!! *grin* (Yes, I'm goinggggggg)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 252 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (19:23) * 2 lines
Picture is lovely, Viola. *Hugs* I am totally enchanted and shall not share with a soul if that is your wish. We gotta get back on tomorrow/later at the same time. It is fun and really amazing considering the distance involved.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 253 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (20:15) * 4 lines
Maggie! It is Waaaaaaay past your bed time. You need adult supervision *grin*
Christ in Byzantine art is supposedly influenced by the classic Greek extant likenesses of Alexander the Great. From thence they were permutations thereof.
Russian Orthodox Icons were much different and most likely had and idealized image gleaned from many sources. Cheryl, do you know of any URLs where the Two-sided Icon might be found? I would love to see it and if I can get it small enough, to post it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 254 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (03:49) * 1 lines
ooo I fogot I've got a lovely little icon on my wall - i shall get it down and scan it. i found it in a junk hsop years ago. it's very old.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 255 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (12:15) * 1 lines
Does it have jewels? Is it Russian Orthodox sort? I am most interested in seeing it. How interesting. Your Junque Shoppes have much nicer things in them than ours. Out here it is just that - Junk!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 256 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (12:18) * 1 lines
Out here, Very Old and Prehistoric means before Captain Cook. Very old in Europe can be a whole other millennium. How old? Any maker's marks on the back?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 257 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (14:39) * 1 lines
No, nothing fancy, very plain in fact. It's orthodox, but I haven't traced it yet. I doubt it's valuable but I like it. It was almost black when I got it. i cleaned it with bread and grapeseed oil, and it has come up well. I'm scanning it now. I don't know how it will come up because it's not too bright.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 258 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (14:56) * 2 lines
You know how to tend old things. I am used to people telling me they used abrasive cleanser or steel wool to get the "old stuff" off. *shudder*
I'll probably scan better than shiny-bright which causes flare.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 259 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (15:01) * 1 lines
Have you got it yet?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 260 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (15:41) * 3 lines
Maggie's Icon: Please tell us of what material and method it is made.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 261 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (15:44) * 1 lines
Can anyone read the Greek text? Maggie says she paid £1 for it!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 262 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (15:47) * 3 lines
Quarter inch depth piece of wood. Just a little over 5 inches tall
by just under 4 inches wide. I think it is oils, although it may be some kind of print I suppose, the surface is very crackled. The edges are very worn. It has a rustic feel to it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 263 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (16:16) * 1 lines
Is there any other color but black outline? Might it be pen and ink? Or is the entire surface painted? (What do you want for £1 ?!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 264 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (17:26) * 1 lines
I don't understand the question. what black outline? no it's definitely notpen and ink, it's antique paint surface of on oily kind. there is ia slight sheen to most of it if you tilt it - that came back after i'd restored it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 265 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (17:40) * 1 lines
The only color I can see is the background color and the black outline which details the image. I was just curious if there were other colors involved or is what we see what you see?!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 266 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (18:05) * 1 lines
No I see the picture as it is normally. I think something is seriously wrong in how you are seeing it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 267 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Thu, Apr 13, 2000 (01:56) * 4 lines
I can't make out much of the greek text on the icon, but I think it starts out as "I am the light of the world", or something like that. I'll take another look when I'm less tired.
Here's a link to some Orthodox icons:
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/icons/icons.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 268 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Apr 13, 2000 (02:04) * 1 lines
Oooh, Ginny!!!! Thanks! How could I forget?!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 269 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Apr 13, 2000 (02:08) * 1 lines
(Ginny is Greek!!! for those who do not frequent other topics on other conferences...)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 270 of 1283: Ginny (vibrown) * Fri, Apr 14, 2000 (01:38) * 2 lines
I wish I had learned to speak Greek! My grandmother tried to teach me, and I got as far as learning the alphabet and pronunciation, but I never got the hang of Greek grammar. I do have a Greek-English dictionary, though...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 271 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Apr 14, 2000 (04:54) * 1 lines
me too, from NT greek study days, but I've forgotten most of it. If I can figure out how to post speical characters in here I'll try and post the inscription. I think it's a well known bible verse, so once we've figured some key words I will be able to find it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 272 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Fri, Apr 14, 2000 (17:20) * 3 lines
Thank you Ginny. Nobody ever tried to teach me to read Greek. My Grandfather could read it of course and all of his children can read it to some degree or other. They, however, never tried to teach their children.
Spoke to my mom, the semi-Luddite, she avoids computers as much as possible. Anyway, Mom can read some Greek, but since she avoids the internet like the plague, and I don't read Greek, I have to explain the icon as best I can over the telephone. Mom says from what she knows about icons the text is probably from the Gospel of John, as it seemed to be the most favored in some ways in the Orthodox Church. Mom also noted that the Eastern Orthodox Bible doesn't contain the Book of Revelations.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 273 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Apr 14, 2000 (18:02) * 1 lines
Fascinating! Gotta blow up the texts of both icons and get them off to Ginny for further work. Remember this is old Greek, not contemporary stuff...!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 274 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Apr 14, 2000 (18:06) * 1 lines
Maggie, your computer has a little handy program called Character Map and using it you can summon up the complete Greek alphabet plus stuff like ° Æ ² and the rest of the fun things in there.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 275 of 1283: MarkG (MarkG) * Mon, Apr 17, 2000 (04:51) * 7 lines
Just to confirm the conclusions already drawn, the Greek text says something close to: "Go eimi io phos tou kosmoi ho akolouthon emoi ou peripate dei en te skouia all' exei phos tes" (apologies for incorrect or obscured characters or transcriptions), and is unquestionably the original of John 8:12 "I am the light of the world; he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 276 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 17, 2000 (13:08) * 1 lines
Thank you for the translation, Mark. How extraordianry, An Englishman who not only is a whiz (yes, you are!) at Cricket, but also likes baseball, and can read Greek. Just your ordinary well-bred and educated Briton...*sigh* It makes sense that the passage quoted above is the one the icon makers would use.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 277 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Apr 17, 2000 (18:35) * 10 lines
Thanks Mark, you got there just ahead of me. Here's my reading of it.
Ego eimi to phostou kosmou ho akalouthon emoi ou me peripatesei I am the light of world the companion/disciple my (pl)where -ve follow
en te skotia all exei to phos tes zoes
in the darkness but go out the light of life
The first E was actually in red and doesn't show up too well through the scanner, and the 'me' (-ve) was obscured by one of the hands.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 278 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Apr 17, 2000 (18:39) * 11 lines
Oh blow - I had it nicely interleaved and it got mucked up. sorry
Ego eimi to phostou kosmou ho akalouthon emoi ou me peripatesei
I am the light of world the companion/disciple my (pl)where -ve follow
en te skotia all exei to phos tes zoes
in the darkness but go out the light of life
I'm trying again
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 279 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 17, 2000 (20:05) * 1 lines
Understood! Yapp software does incredible stuff with neatly arranged stuff. It likes to make its own decisions and they are not usually the way we planned them to appear...*sigh* Thanks all, for the translations. I sent Ginny a vastly enlarged copy of just the book and hands. Have not heard from her, yet...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 280 of 1283: viola (viola) * Wed, Apr 19, 2000 (16:27) * 4 lines
This all sounds rather interesting stuff. How comes I missed it all?
There seems to be lots more archaeology programmes on at the moment focusing on Christ and Biblical matters, but that's not really surprising considering the time of year!
I hope you all have a great Easter and I shall try and access more info on any of the programmes that I have seen.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 281 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Apr 19, 2000 (17:31) * 1 lines
Nice to see you again Viola. Thanks for the treacle tart (it was yummy even if it was well done - my fault!). I'll show you the icon when you come to visit sometime!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 282 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Apr 19, 2000 (17:48) * 2 lines
Oooh, I NEED a treacle tart!!! The nearest one is probably in New Zealand.
*sigh* I miss the stuff, too, Viola. Comeon over! We'll rent them when they come out on video...*grin*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 283 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Apr 21, 2000 (15:36) * 4 lines
(I hear she's gone home for the easter hols - she'll be back soon)
There's a history of archeology programme on TV now, but I'm finding it a bit boring, not sure why.
Out at dinner today, perusing my hosts bookshelves I came across the Watkins - the old straight track. Is that the one you were talking about earlier? T.s got interested now. I also picked up Wilcock -A guide to occult britain which I'm not sure about but will have a look. It does have some black and white photos.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 284 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Apr 21, 2000 (16:44) * 1 lines
Schleimann boring? Not so! Mostly about Britons, I'd venture to guess. Just my sort of program, actually...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 285 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Apr 22, 2000 (07:42) * 112 lines
From: Timothy Troy, University of California Berkeley
Forwarded by: David Newbury, University of North Carolina
dnewbury@unc.edu
Prof. J. Desmond Clark, emeritus professor of paleoarchaeology at
the University of California, Berkeley, and one of the preeminent
paleoarchaeologist and Africanists in the world, has just shown
me a copy of a March 29, 2000 article from the Daily Telegraph
(London) entitled: "Last Record of African Explorers Faces
Ruin." The article was written by Ishbel Matheson in
Livingstone, Zambia. It reads in part:
"A priceless collection of books and documents, detailing the
earliest days of European exploration in Africa, is under threat
of destruction. The Livingstone Museum in southern Zambia has
hundreds of valuable books, written by the first missionaries,
adventurers and prospectors in central Africa. But the building's
leaking ceiling collapsed in recent heavy rains, and many
publications were damaged beyond repair. Others need expensive
conservation work to save them. Piles of ancient, sodden
volumes, with subjects as diverse as elephant-hunting and native
practices, have been left to dry in the tropical heat. Early
newspapers, with vivid descriptions of life in what was then
British-ruled Northern Rhodesia, can scarcely be opened, for fear
of tearing fragile, brittle pages. Flexon Mizinga, the keeper of
history at the museum, said: 'It means the whole history is wiped
out. When you lose this kind ofthing, there is no replacement.
You can't get copies anywhere else. These are the only copies we
have. Valuable historical documents, which escaped the flood, are
slowly disintegrating because the museum has no money for
conservation.
The original letters and journals of David Livingstone, the
Scottish missionary, are the pride of the collection. He was the
first European to discover the nearby Victoria Falls, and he is
remembered affectionately in the area as a Christian who
campaigned to stop slavery. His notebooks describing his second
Zambezi [River] expedition in 1858 are stored in the museum, with
those of his companions, even though the institution is ill
equipped to preserve them.
The journals of Sir John Kirk, a botanist, and Richard Thornton,
a geologist, which record their first impressions of the African
landscape and its commercial potential for the British Empire,
are in battered cardboard boxes. The acidity of the brown paper
which wraps the notebooks is slowly eating away the handwritten
testimony of these Victorian explorers. In the museum's clock
tower, amid a jumble of books and newspapers, is the work of
Thomas Baines, an artist and a member of the Zambezi expedition.
A beautiful first edition of his famous Victoria Falls
watercolours lies on a tabletop, vulnerable to the fierce heat
and high humidity of the southern Zambia climate.
Kinglsey Choongo, a museum curator, says, 'The documents will not
see the beginning of another century.' Family members of the
early explorers and settlers gave historical items to the museum
because they wanted their ancestors' contribution to this part of
Africa remembered. It seems, however, that in Livingstone and
Zambia the history of the whites in Africa is being erased from
the national consciousness.
Tim Holmes, an author, lives in Zambia and has written a
biography of Dr. Livingstone. He believes the museum has been
starved of funds because its collection is perceived as a relic
from the colonial past.'After independence came, what Zambians
wanted to know most of all, is their own history. The colonial
history was seen as an irrelevant burden.
But trying to ignore colonialaism is like trying to tell the
history of Britain without the Romans.'It is the former colonial
countries who are now trying to help the museum out of its
immediate crisis. The European Union has pledged 250,000 pounds.
Conservationists fear that the money is too late because so much
damage has been done. Nor will it be enough for the extensive
upgrade needed to preserve the collections."
Dr. Clark was the director and primary curator of the Livingstone
Museum in its early manifestations from 1937 to his departure for
Berkeley, California in 1961. In 1951 he raised the funds needed
for a major expansion of the museum complex and library in
Livingstone. A modest man, Clark neverless has told me in recent
oral history interviews I have conducted with him for the
Regional Oral History Office of the Bancroft Library, UC
Berkeley, that it was he who built the magnificent book and
manuscript collection for the museum's library. He personally
worked with the descendants of David Livingstone and others to do
so. Though now eighty-four years old, Clark can list practically
every rare book title, journal and manuscript collection which is
held in the Livingstone Museum library.
Curiously, however, Clark's great legacy to the world will be his
work as a paleoarchaeolgist in Africa. The paleolithic and
neolithic archaeolgical collections at the Museum are the result
of his work over the course of his years working in Central and
East Africa. It was always Clark's intention also to build the
museum's collections and library for the Zambian people. In the
1950s he instituted museum outreach educational programs in a
concerted effort to help the local peoples learn more about their
early history. Long before other museums instituted the
practice, Clark designed small, portable travelling exhibitions
for this purpose. Understandably it saddens him greatly to see
that the museum and its resources are falling into ruin.
I would hope that IFLA and its membership could rally support for
Flexon Mizinga, Kingsley Choongo and others in Livingstone who
are waging the uphill battle to preserve what remains of this
priceless library collection.
Thank you for spreading the word.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 286 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Apr 22, 2000 (14:41) * 1 lines
This should be posted in Books conference...perhaps in the intro or conference business. Thanks, Maggie.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 287 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Apr 23, 2000 (18:11) * 10 lines
Hi,
Yes, I am at home at the moment but I am at my parent's computer. I
return to Chichester tomorrow.
I'm afraid I haven't seen any more interesting programmes yet but I did
get the Time Team book for Easter. If I come across anything worth scanning
(which I probably will) I shall give it a try. There's loads of photos and
interesting info. I shall show you when you next visit Chichester maggie,
and I promise to make another treacle tart (this time cooked for just the
right length of time!!!!!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 288 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Apr 23, 2000 (19:11) * 1 lines
There you are! Yippee! Hope your Easter has been lovely, Dear...I am delighted to see you here if only for a moment. o created some new topics and posted a whizzo one on crop circles at Stonehenge...(no comment)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 289 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Apr 24, 2000 (03:31) * 1 lines
Tonight on the The Learning Channel they had a program on the Ark of the Covenant. I would like to hear from anyone who saw it. It covered all the bases from space men through the Knights Templar. Shades of Holy Blood, Holy Grail. It did not cover any new material, but it was interesting from the standpoint of seeing the places mentioned in all of the books on the subject. With the major omission of the Rennes-le-Chateau connection. They claimed (they being the Knights Templar and guardians of Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland) thatr there are no fewer than 5 Arks of the Covenant, and they are all still in existance. Of course, none of this could be proven, so it was an exercise in futility for those who wanted a definite yes or no to the question of its still existing. Please comment if you happened to see it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 290 of 1283: Saskia (Saskia) * Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (18:46) * 1 lines
There's supposed to be an Ark of the Covenant still in existence in Ethiopia. It's at St. Mary's Monastery, I believe. I'm sorry I don't know exactly where in Ethiopia. The Ark is the life-long responsibility of one of the monks, at his death another is chosen from among the brothers.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 291 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (18:51) * 3 lines
Yes! I have Graham Hancock's book on the subject. The TLC program I cited above was more current than the research GH did for his book. Neither of them got close to discovering its whereabouts. I suspect, for the devout, you will not change their belief of its whereabouts, and for those still searching, it will be like the Holy Grail...ever out of reach. Just...
Aloha Saskia..*hugs*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 292 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (18:29) * 202 lines
The latest history of Archeology programme was much better than the two earlier ones. I still don't like the presenter's style much. This one was Schiemann and Petrie. The earier ones were BORING - and we like archeo programmes.
Programme 1 Stones and Bones
Over the past 250 years archaeologists have completely changed our view of human history. Before archaeology became a scientific discipline, most people thought that the Bible, which has been interpreted as saying that God put Adam and Eve on Earth one day in 4004BC, was literally true.
Now, archaeologists have proved that hominids – that is, human beings and their immediate ancestors – have been around for about five million years. From the beginning, archaeologists have grappled with ways of answering the big question: where does the human race come from? Unlike other historians, they have had few documents to go on – instead, they have had to find answers through digging into the earth.
The following sections trace the development of archaeology from its early beginnings at Herculaneum.
1736
VENUTI AND HERCULANEUM
In southern Italy, which is divided into several independent states, a new king, Charles, begins his rule by buying a small estate on the Bay of Naples. He wants to have a large area on which to hunt. He is told that the farm is famous for its deep well, in which many ancient Roman statues have been found.
The king sends his royal antiquary, Count Marcello Venuti, to take a look inside the well. He’s been told that an ancient temple is buried there, but he discovers a curving set of stone steps that look like theatre seats. Then he finds an ancient Roman inscription which tells him that it was a theatre and gives him the name of the city in which it had been built: Herculaneum. Venuti tells Charles that he has an ancient city buried under his estate. It had been covered in lava and ash when the volcano Vesuvius, which still exists, erupted on 24 August 79AD. People had known from manuscripts and books that this had happened, but no one knew exactly where the buried city was.
Thirteen years later, Venuti discovers another buried city nearby. It is the now legendary Pompeii, which was covered by volcanic ash so rapidly that most of its buildings and all the everyday objects of its citizens were preserved.
These discoveries illustrate the birth of archaeology because they show that remains of the past life of our ancestors are always with us – they are buried under the accumulated layers of time and can be found by excavation.
1816
THOMSEN and COPENHAGEN
In Copenhagen, Denmark, Christian Thomsen – a pioneering coin-collector – is appointed keeper of the national archaeological collection. He discovers that although all the objects have been labelled, they have not been classified or arranged in any order.
Thomsen decides that because early humans probably used the most advanced materials for weapons, he should organise these ancient objects according to what they were made out of. He arranges the artefacts into Stone Age objects, Bronze Age objects and Iron Age objects.
By doing so, he invents a way of grouping what we find in the earth into a story, a history of progress from stone, through bronze and on to iron. His system of three ages is still used by museum curators.
1840s-1860s
WORSAAE and DENMARK
Christian Thomsen’s assistant at the national museum is Jens Jacob Worsaae. He’s been excavating since the age of 15 and he realises that by looking in Denmark’s ancient mound burials, he always finds the Stone Age burials below the Bronze Age burials and the Iron Age are always on top.
From this fact, he concludes that the Stone Age is the most ancient and the Iron Age the most recent, with the Bronze Age in between. From now on, archaeologists can argue that artefacts found in different layers of the earth can be dated to different historical ages.
Worsaae is appointed archaeologist royal, becoming the first professional archaeologist, and influencing scholars all over Europe.
1879
De SAUTUOLA and ALTAMIRA
In the cave of Altamira, on the north coast of Spain, an amateur archaeologist Marcelino de Sautuola excavates the entrance in the company of his daughter Maria. She wanders inside the cave, looks up at the ceiling and exclaims: ‘Papa, papa, there are painted bulls.’
At first, professional archaeologists don’t believe that such wonderful images could have been painted in the Stone Age, because they assume that early humans were barbarians. It is even suggested that de Sautuola faked them.
However, similar paintings are soon found in French caves which have been sealed since ancient times, so their authenticity cannot be doubted. Altamira is dubbed ‘the Sistine Chapel of the Stone Age’.
1881
PITT-RIVERS and THEBES
Augustus Henry Lane-Fox Pitt-Rivers travels up the Nile to the ancient city of Thebes, modern-day Luxor. He finds ancient flints embedded in cemetery walls that are known to be 4,000 years old. The flints had been scraped up when the ancient Egyptians took excavated earth to build these walls.
From this, Pitt-Rivers deduces that the flints are much older than the walls, and thus that the history of human beings goes back beyond the 4,000 years suggested by Biblical sources. These flints, he concludes, are older than the pharaohs.
As well as making beautiful drawings of the tombs at Thebes, Pitt-Rivers also organises archaeological digs at his estate in Cranbourne Chase in the West Country in 1885.
1927
LAMBERT and MOUNT CARMEL
The British administration in Palestine, which ruled the country in the days of Empire, decides to quarry rock from the biblical mountain of Carmel, which lies south of Haifa. Charles Lambert, a professional archaeologist, is sent to see if such work will damage any ancient remains.
Digging in some shepherds’ caves, Lambert finds a broken sickle handle which is carved with the image of an animal. It is the first piece of Stone Age art to be found outside Europe and proof that agriculture was being practised in ancient Palestine.
Lambert also finds ancient flint tools. His expedition is soon followed by that of Dorothy Garrod, the first female professor at Cambridge University, who finds skeletons preserved in lime, at the time the most complete remains of early humans ever found.
1976
LEAKEY and LAETOLI
Gradually, over the decades, archaeologists seek the origins of human beings outside Europe. Slowly, Africa emerges as the cradle of humanity.
At Laetoli in Tanzania, archaeologist Mary Leakey discovers a trail left by three people walking across a flat expanse of volcanic ash 3,500,000 years ago. They are by far the earliest human footprints known to science.
Dating them is made possible by the discovery of carbon dating, devised by Willard F Libby, a former atom bomb scientist, in 1946. He discovers that all organic materials have a tiny amount of naturally occurring radioactivity. One of these materials, called Carbon 14, loses its radioactivity at a constant rate from the moment the organism dies. By measuring the level of radioactivity remaining, the age of many objects can be established. Since the 1960s, such scientific dating methods have been developed and are now more accurate than ever.
From being a hobby for rich mavericks, archaeology has grown into a fully-fledged science, able to answer questions about how long ago our ancestors walked the earth.
Over the past 250 years archaeologists have completely changed our view of human history. Before archaeology became a scientific discipline, most people thought that the Bible, which has been interpreted as saying that God put Adam and Eve on Earth one day in 4004BC, was literally true.
Now, archaeologists have proved that hominids – that is, human beings and their immediate ancestors – have been around for about five million years. From the beginning, archaeologists have grappled with ways of answering the big question: where does the human race come from? Unlike other historians, they have had few documents to go on – instead, they have had to find answers through digging into the earth.
The following sections trace the development of archaeology from its early beginnings at Herculaneum.
1736
VENUTI AND HERCULANEUM
In southern Italy, which is divided into several independent states, a new king, Charles, begins his rule by buying a small estate on the Bay of Naples. He wants to have a large area on which to hunt. He is told that the farm is famous for its deep well, in which many ancient Roman statues have been found.
The king sends his royal antiquary, Count Marcello Venuti, to take a look inside the well. He’s been told that an ancient temple is buried there, but he discovers a curving set of stone steps that look like theatre seats. Then he finds an ancient Roman inscription which tells him that it was a theatre and gives him the name of the city in which it had been built: Herculaneum. Venuti tells Charles that he has an ancient city buried under his estate. It had been covered in lava and ash when the volcano Vesuvius, which still exists, erupted on 24 August 79AD. People had known from manuscripts and books that this had happened, but no one knew exactly where the buried city was.
Thirteen years later, Venuti discovers another buried city nearby. It is the now legendary Pompeii, which was covered by volcanic ash so rapidly that most of its buildings and all the everyday objects of its citizens were preserved.
These discoveries illustrate the birth of archaeology because they show that remains of the past life of our ancestors are always with us – they are buried under the accumulated layers of time and can be found by excavation.
Back to time line
1816
THOMSEN and COPENHAGEN
In Copenhagen, Denmark, Christian Thomsen – a pioneering coin-collector – is appointed keeper of the national archaeological collection. He discovers that although all the objects have been labelled, they have not been classified or arranged in any order.
Thomsen decides that because early humans probably used the most advanced materials for weapons, he should organise these ancient objects according to what they were made out of. He arranges the artefacts into Stone Age objects, Bronze Age objects and Iron Age objects.
By doing so, he invents a way of grouping what we find in the earth into a story, a history of progress from stone, through bronze and on to iron. His system of three ages is still used by museum curators.
Back to time line
1840s-1860s
WORSAAE and DENMARK
Christian Thomsen’s assistant at the national museum is Jens Jacob Worsaae. He’s been excavating since the age of 15 and he realises that by looking in Denmark’s ancient mound burials, he always finds the Stone Age burials below the Bronze Age burials and the Iron Age are always on top.
From this fact, he concludes that the Stone Age is the most ancient and the Iron Age the most recent, with the Bronze Age in between. From now on, archaeologists can argue that artefacts found in different layers of the earth can be dated to different historical ages.
Worsaae is appointed archaeologist royal, becoming the first professional archaeologist, and influencing scholars all over Europe.
Back to time line
1879
De SAUTUOLA and ALTAMIRA
In the cave of Altamira, on the north coast of Spain, an amateur archaeologist Marcelino de Sautuola excavates the entrance in the company of his daughter Maria. She wanders inside the cave, looks up at the ceiling and exclaims: ‘Papa, papa, there are painted bulls.’
At first, professional archaeologists don’t believe that such wonderful images could have been painted in the Stone Age, because they assume that early humans were barbarians. It is even suggested that de Sautuola faked them.
However, similar paintings are soon found in French caves which have been sealed since ancient times, so their authenticity cannot be doubted. Altamira is dubbed ‘the Sistine Chapel of the Stone Age’.
Back to time line
1881
PITT-RIVERS and THEBES
Augustus Henry Lane-Fox Pitt-Rivers travels up the Nile to the ancient city of Thebes, modern-day Luxor. He finds ancient flints embedded in cemetery walls that are known to be 4,000 years old. The flints had been scraped up when the ancient Egyptians took excavated earth to build these walls.
From this, Pitt-Rivers deduces that the flints are much older than the walls, and thus that the history of human beings goes back beyond the 4,000 years suggested by Biblical sources. These flints, he concludes, are older than the pharaohs.
As well as making beautiful drawings of the tombs at Thebes, Pitt-Rivers also organises archaeological digs at his estate in Cranbourne Chase in the West Country in 1885.
Back to time line
1927
LAMBERT and MOUNT CARMEL
The British administration in Palestine, which ruled the country in the days of Empire, decides to quarry rock from the biblical mountain of Carmel, which lies south of Haifa. Charles Lambert, a professional archaeologist, is sent to see if such work will damage any ancient remains.
Digging in some shepherds’ caves, Lambert finds a broken sickle handle which is carved with the image of an animal. It is the first piece of Stone Age art to be found outside Europe and proof that agriculture was being practised in ancient Palestine.
Lambert also finds ancient flint tools. His expedition is soon followed by that of Dorothy Garrod, the first female professor at Cambridge University, who finds skeletons preserved in lime, at the time the most complete remains of early humans ever found.
Back to time line
1976
LEAKEY and LAETOLI
Gradually, over the decades, archaeologists seek the origins of human beings outside Europe. Slowly, Africa emerges as the cradle of humanity.
At Laetoli in Tanzania, archaeologist Mary Leakey discovers a trail left by three people walking across a flat expanse of volcanic ash 3,500,000 years ago. They are by far the earliest human footprints known to science.
Dating them is made possible by the discovery of carbon dating, devised by Willard F Libby, a former atom bomb scientist, in 1946. He discovers that all organic materials have a tiny amount of naturally occurring radioactivity. One of these materials, called Carbon 14, loses its radioactivity at a constant rate from the moment the organism dies. By measuring the level of radioactivity remaining, the age of many objects can be established. Since the 1960s, such scientific dating methods have been developed and are now more accurate than ever.
From being a hobby for rich mavericks, archaeology has grown into a fully-fledged science, able to answer questions about how long ago our ancestors walked the earth.
http://www.channel4.com/nextstep/ (click on great excavations picture)
(Marcia do you want to go and post in the pix? I'm running out of time, I meant to post the programmes so far)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 293 of 1283: GeoLady (MarciaH) * Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (20:07) * 14 lines
Archeologists Finish Roman Bath Restoration
CAIRO (Reuters) - Egyptian archeologists have completed the restoration of
the largest of five Roman baths found near the Mediterranean coast in the
northern Sinai, officials said Thursday.
``Restorations to a Roman bath, dating back to the Roman period in the third
century AD, took one year to complete,'' said Gaballah Ali Gaballah,
secretary-general of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, while inspecting the
restored baths.
Mohamed Abdel Maksoud, director of Sinai antiquities, said the baths were
built of red brick and included rooms decorated with mosaics of Indian design,
water tanks, a section for hot and cold bathing and a steam room.
The baths are said to have been used by Roman rulers. They are situated
outside the Pilosome Citadel on the Mediterranean coast road between
al-Qantara and al-Arish, some 130km (80 miles) northeast of Cairo.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 294 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (16:52) * 1 lines
I thought that Lescaux was the Sistine Chapel of the Stone Age. No matter, both sites are remarkably beautiful. I think the Lescaux paintings are slightly older than those at Altimira. Tourists can no longer actually view the actual cave paintings at Lescaux, due to the effect of the humidity from all the visitors breath on the cave environment and the paintings. You can, however, tour a reproduction of the famous cave paintings.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 295 of 1283: GeoLady (MarciaH) * Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (20:22) * 1 lines
Lascaux and Altamira are supposedly the most significant. But, we are nit picking here. It is subjective opinions on things so much more significant than that they are good art.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 296 of 1283: viola (viola) * Sun, Apr 30, 2000 (16:32) * 2 lines
Hi!!! Yep, I'm back!
Not really much to say. I recall seeing a good programme recently but I have been working hard and I am extremely tired thus causing my brain to want to sleep. When I have woken again I shall try and look up about the programme and post it onto this page. I think it was another channel4 prduction. Watch this space...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 297 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Apr 30, 2000 (16:43) * 1 lines
...watching... but have to go to a double-header baseball game in an hour, so take your time to get your brain well-rested and back into gear. I had heard that you were too busy to get into trouble (well, almost!) *hugs* Welcome back!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 298 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, May 4, 2000 (06:41) * 5 lines
If you're interested in Pompeii, check
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/pompeii/page-1.html
From the home page, click on the link to the forum. It gives you a large clickable map of the town plus images. It gives building plans, photos, and some explanations. A link in the section on the Imperial Cult Building brings up a study of how the room and roof might have been constructed, along with several fly-around animations of the sructure as it might have looked.
It's definitely worth a visit!
(One of my 'love to go there sometime' places!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 299 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, May 4, 2000 (14:03) * 1 lines
Thanks for that. It is definitely one of my Gotta Go places...perhaps in another lifetime...*sigh*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 300 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, May 6, 2000 (08:02) * 1 lines
me too *sigh*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 301 of 1283: viola (viola) * Tue, May 9, 2000 (17:01) * 2 lines
I don't know, don't be a pair of doubting Thomas's. If you want to you will get there. If something is worth going for you'll do it. Positive thinking and enthusiasm and a LOVE of archaeology and you'll go ANYWHERE!
ENJOY!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 302 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, May 9, 2000 (17:20) * 1 lines
For me it is not doubting, it is reality. Especially when financial obligations take priority and it is not easy to hitch a ride to Pompeii from the middle of the Pacific. However, I have not given up on going other places closer to home which call me clearly and insistently!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 303 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, May 14, 2000 (03:49) * 3 lines
OK Viola, when are we going? Come on, I need some cheering up!!!
I'm still trying to get to York, but that MAY be possible if we can find somewhere to stay on the way up to Scotland this week, and if someone does something about it! (shoulder surfers please note)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 304 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, May 14, 2000 (13:45) * 1 lines
Shoulder surfers in my experience are selective blind when looking at the monitor. If it is meant for him to see, you just might have to post it in something which might attract his attention. York would be a natural place to stop and peer at the past!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 305 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, May 16, 2000 (05:17) * 2 lines
*sigh* stopping in Sunderland instead. Maybe in August .....
now what archeo is going on there?? must do a search
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 306 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, May 16, 2000 (15:37) * 1 lines
If you need help or come up empty, I know of some places for you to check..
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 307 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, May 16, 2000 (17:34) * 2 lines
Please let me know any suggestions.
Have arranged a stopover in Pontefract coming home the following week. We shall pass through York and do a reccy prior to a possible longer visit on the way up to scotland in August.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 308 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, May 16, 2000 (21:54) * 1 lines
I shall investigate my archy guide books for the area and let you know if I find anything other than the odd castle. That's the place pronounced "pumfret" or something similar?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 309 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, May 16, 2000 (21:55) * 2 lines
check this url, Maggie
http://www.casandpont.freeserve.co.uk/front.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 310 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, May 16, 2000 (21:59) * 11 lines
Maps:
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.lonsdale/
Museum
http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/lifestyle/pontmuse.htm
Collieries
http://www.nce-league.freeserve.co.uk/pontefract_colls.htm
Calderdale - the best one on this post, I think:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/north_east_england_history_page/Calderdale.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 311 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, May 17, 2000 (05:54) * 1 lines
Thanks. I think we will visit Pontefract. The castle and museum sound interesting. I'll post about it in Travel/england etc. when I get back.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 312 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, May 17, 2000 (18:19) * 1 lines
Great! Have a splendid time!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 313 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, May 26, 2000 (12:02) * 6 lines
when they discuss a dig, these measurements are the ones used:
Acres And Hectares
An acre is a measurement of area equal to 43,650 square feet or 4,840 square yards. Originally, an acre had to be a fixed-shape rectangle, 660 by 66 feet. But in current usage, it can be any shape as long as it has the same total
square footage. Some other countries, such as Ireland and Scotland, have traditionally used somewhat different definitions of the acre. There is also a metric equivalent--the hectare, which is 10,000 square meters, or almost 2.5 acres.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 314 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, May 27, 2000 (07:30) * 22 lines
Check out this site for loads on archeology in Mali.
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/%7Eanth/arch/mali-interactive/aboutproject/index.html
Here's a taste:
The archaeological site of Jenné-jeno is located within a huge, seasonally flooded basin called the Inland Niger Delta, in the West African country of Mali. Every year, after the rains begin further south, where the mighty Niger River has its source, the swollen river rushes downriver (towards the north!). When it enters the flat, Inland Niger Delta basin, the waters spread out and flood all the lowest areas to a depth of 2-3 meters. The floodwaters cover an area about 300 kilometers long by 100 kilometers wide! Needless to say, people who want to live in the Inland Niger Delta year-round have to build their houses on high ground, or create some high ground to live on. Many of the villages are on high mounds that have accumulated over centuries, with the surface getting higher and higher everytime a mud house is abandoned and decays. The mounds become like islands when the floodwaters rise. Sometimes they can be quite big. The modern town of Jenné, for example, has over 10,000 inhabitants settled on a mound
over six meters high. Jenné will be our home while we are digging at Jenné-jeno, located three kilometers away across the floodplain.
According to tradition, Jenné-jeno ("ancient Jenné) is the early site of Jenné. The town moved to its present location sometime around a thousand years ago, although we aren't sure why the inhabitants moved, finally abandoning Jenné-jeno totally by 1400 A.D. The fact that Jenné and Jenné-jeno are so closely related historically and share many features allows us to look at Jenné for clues to help us understand how the early Jenné-jeno people lived.
One of the main goals of the project is to do some excavation at Jenné-jeno to salvage, or rescue, information from several areas of the mound that are cut by huge erosion gullies.
Thousands of potsherds, beads, and many other kinds of artifacts are being washed out of the soil and into the gullies every year during the torrential rains in June and July. Along with them goes all possibility for the archaeologist to figure out when and how they were used. Earlier work at Jenné-jeno by the two American archaeologists on the project, Rod and Susan McIntosh, showed that town life in large, settled communities began over 1500 years ago in this region. At that time, in the late 1970's, people thought that town life in areas south of the Sahara only developed in the last few hundred years. The discovery that Jenné-jeno had grown very large soon after it was first settled in 250 B.C. came as a big surprise.
As the earliest known urban settlement south of the Sahara, Jenne-jeno is one of the very few World Heritage archaeological sites recognized by UNESCO in sub-saharan Africa.
Because it is an important site for our understanding of the development of civilization south of the Sahara, its slow destruction by erosion is a matter of grave concern. The World Monuments Fund has provided money to Malian archaeologists to rescue archaeological information in endangered sections of the site, and to fill in the gullies in order to stop further erosion. Malian and American members of the project team are working together toward this important goal.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 315 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, May 27, 2000 (13:47) * 1 lines
Mali has been known for years as a very rich country as far as archaeology goes. Thanks for that url and the "taste"
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 316 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, May 27, 2000 (15:33) * 1 lines
there's also been an awful lot of 'poaching' of artifacts. There's more on that site about that too. There's an 'artifact' market in Bamako. I went past but didn't go anywhere near it!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 317 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Jun 3, 2000 (18:26) * 37 lines
Ancient Cities Reported Found Under Sea Off Egypt
ALEXANDRIA, Egypt (Reuters) - Archaeologists on Saturday showed off
relics retrieved from the nearly complete ruins of ancient cities they said they
had discovered on the seabed off the Egyptian coast.
The joint French and Egyptian team said the cities of Menouthif and
Herakleion, submerged more than 1,000 years ago, lay in five to 10 meters
(15-30 feet) of water about six km (3.75 miles) off the Mediterranean city of
Alexandria.
``We are very excited because we are used to finding the remains of a tomb,
a church or a mosque, but this time we are finding complete cities cities that
were heard about from the classical writings,'' said Gaballah Ali Gaballah,
head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities.
``Most probably they disappeared because of seismic causes,'' said Franck
Goddio, head of the Paris-based European Institute of Marine Archaeology.
A rise in the Mediterranean sea level and sudden submersion caused by
earthquake, or climate changes, could explain the annihilation of the cities,
he said.
The cities were legendary in antiquity for their wealth and arts as well as their
many temples dedicated to the gods Serapis, Isis and Osiris.
An intricately carved 1.5-meter (five-foot) black granite statue of Isis was
shown to the media after being raised from the seabed.
``To me she looks 17 years old but in reality she is probably around 1,200
years old,'' Goddio said.
Gaballah said researchers were aware of the existence of the ancient cities
but could not pinpoint their exact location.
``Thanks to modern technology and the efforts of the Egyptian-French team,
we could pinpoint cities that were read about in Greco-Roman literature,'' he
told Reuters.
Also discovered during two years of undersea exploration were the head of a
pharaonic statue of a sphinx, jewelry and gold coins dating from the
Byzantine and Islamic eras.
The archaeologists said the coins showed the region had not been
submerged until the eighth century, although the cities had been founded
many hundreds of years earlier.
The archaeologists said they had also identified two other submerged cities in
the same area, Canopus and Thonis, but had not yet retrieved relics from
them.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 318 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Jun 3, 2000 (18:30) * 2 lines
Maggie, grave robbers have been the bane of Archaeologists since mankind began to learn from their past. I know Britain had passed a Treasure Trove law, but some countries are so poor and their governments are so corrupt that it is almost useless to try. The best way to stop this illegal trade is to do as you did...stay as far away from it as possible. Things purchased better have
good and legal provenance sheets with them.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 319 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Jun 4, 2000 (11:59) * 36 lines
Following what we are talking about - this appeared in the Sunday Times this morning.
Gangs smuggle best of Africa's art to Britain
Jon Ungoed-Thomas and Peter Watson
TRIBAL crowns, carvings and terracotta statues dating back more than 2,000 years are being plundered from Africa for British collectors, an investigation has revealed.
Organised gangs with up to 1,000 workers have dug up dozens of protected sites to satisfy demand in Europe. The Nigerian high commission in London has complained about the quantity of goods without any provenance being openly sold by auction houses and antique dealers.
The trade is so well established that artefacts that would have fetched £30,000 a decade ago are now on sale for a tenth of the price. The government is examining ways of cracking down on sales thought to be worth up to £500m a year.
Government officials in Africa are so concerned they have effectively banned the export of all treasures.
London outlet: Telfer-Smollett says he has no way of knowing if the art he sells is smuggled Michael Telfer-Smollett, a dealer in African art based in Notting Hill, west London, sold The Sunday Times a Yoruba tribal crown for £275, which Nigerian officials say would have been banned from export. The crown, decorated with wading birds, is believed to have been made early last century for the king in the walled city of Abeokuta. "It's an elaborate work and might have been used in ceremonies," Telfer-Smollett said.
Dr Patrick Darling, an archeologist who has worked extensively in Africa, said: "It's been smuggled out. It would never have been allowed to leave the country legally."
Telfer-Smollett said yesterday: "Most of my African stuff is bought to me by Africans. They come streaming over with bagfuls of stuff. I don't believe the crown was smuggled, but it's impossible to check. It's up to the authorities in Nigeria to check it before it comes out."
Artefacts are bought locally for a few pounds and smuggled out via neighbouring countries. Others are excavated or stolen from museums and temples.
The looters particularly target Nok terracotta figures, named after the village on the Jos plateau in Nigeria where the sculptures were discovered. These provide the earliest evidence of a sculptural tradition south of the Sahara.
Even artefacts in museums are not safe. Curators complain that items are "borrowed" and never returned amid allegations of corruption. The National Museum in Lagos has so few artefacts it displays replicas.
"It's a scandal the way in which archeological material is being lost because of systematic pillaging," said John Picton, of the School of Oriental and African Studies. "It's illegally smuggled out of Africa, but there is no law against selling it here." Archeologists are angered at Britain's refusal to sign the Unesco treaty, which aims to prevent the looting of antiquities.
The problem is so widespread that the Royal Academy of Arts had to withdraw several pieces from an exhibition of African art because of fears they were smuggled. "They included Nok pieces which could not have been acquired legitimately," said Picton.
The Nigerian high commission has also complained to the London auctioneer Bonhams about its tribal art sales, which regularly include items without provenance. In one sale in April 1997, the commission highlighted six lots that it considered suspect, including a Nok terracotta head.
Bonhams has assured the commission that it never accepts any material that has been illegally exported. The commission believes that any item without a detailed history should be removed from sale.
Nigeria now wants stricter controls in Britain against illegal imports. "This is the history of Nigeria which is being stolen and sold to art collectors in Europe and the United States," said Greyne Anosike, cultural attaché at the commission.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 320 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jun 4, 2000 (16:01) * 1 lines
That is truly horrifying. They are stealing and voiding any direct evidence of our past. Items found en situ are about as objective as "history" can be without coloring by the author. Now, that part of it is rendered as just another antiquity with no provenace, no value but what the black market will bear. How tragic!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 321 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jun 4, 2000 (16:25) * 5 lines
Stephen, welcome to Geo and most especially to Archaeology. I talked to Maggie and she told me about you. I am so envious of your working on restoring stone circles; would love to hear about the one in Scotland. A recumbent?
My "bible" of Stone circles of the British Isles is by Aubrey Burl and what a thesis that was! How I wish I could have carried his stuff around - and just admire the places. After three trips to Britain crawling through fogous in Cornwall and through sheep paddocks to climb Windmill Hill, it is good to have someone here who know of what I am speaking. Aloha!
If you need to contact me in Yahoo, I am kilauea83.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 322 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Jun 5, 2000 (17:26) * 1 lines
Studying artifacts "in situ" is a fairly new development even among archaeologists. At one time the object was to gather as many relics as possible, which were themselves as valuable as possible.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 323 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 5, 2000 (18:29) * 1 lines
Not in the last too centuries. Before that, it was considered treasure and so much for history. In situ is the best scenario and the devoutly wished-for situation for all artifacts...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 324 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Jun 5, 2000 (18:58) * 1 lines
But just imagine the knowlege that was lost, in addition to the damage done.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 325 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 5, 2000 (19:26) * 1 lines
Just a look at the tombs of Egypt is enough to make you cry. In the US, we managed to level the largest mound of the Woodland folk and build St Louis on the site. Obscene. It makes me very angry then proundly sad at the loss. I would almost rather not know.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 326 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 5, 2000 (19:28) * 1 lines
...and they levelled a large Hillfort outside of London to build Heathrow.....
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 327 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Jun 5, 2000 (19:45) * 1 lines
At least Rome doesn't have a subway. It was decided not try and build one, for archaeological reasons.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 328 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 5, 2000 (20:04) * 1 lines
Yup - the catacombs beat them to it - fortunatly! However, when they were tunnelling under London for the Undeerground, they found hippo bones and elephant and ancient extinct wonderments there. Who'd have thought!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 329 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (15:28) * 1 lines
Come on in - the water's fine! *grin* (and the Pirhan's don't bite)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 330 of 1283: Stephen C. Appleby (StephenA) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (15:49) * 1 lines
Hi Marcia, Thanks for the greeting to this completely new experience. I have been meaning to post a message, but my technological capabilities ended with flint tools...I will e-mail you soon....Stephen.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 331 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (15:55) * 1 lines
Come on in - the water's fine! *grin* (and the Pirhan's don't bite)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 332 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (17:05) * 1 lines
...and so he did... Thank you and Aloha Stephen! We all started out in here much as you are now - and I worked my way up to what you see now. It just takes persistence, a lot of mistakes and some guidance - all of which I am happy to provide *smile*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 333 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (17:46) * 1 lines
I feel the sudden urge to float over the conference strewing frangipani (plumeria)and ginger blossoms in his way... Am I happy to have a *real* archaeologist here? You'd better believe it! *Hugs*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 334 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (18:11) * 1 lines
A real live archaeologist. I'm now too petrified to post here again. Okay, petrified is the wrong word. Embarassed is more accurate.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 335 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (18:59) * 1 lines
Don't do that to me! I NEED you here. I shall never again mention who the new people posting are. Besides, we need to keep his interest here and if I have to dance to do it, we'll all be embarrassed. (Maybe he is kidding...maybe I am kidding...maybe...) Cheryl, Please don't desert me! I NEED your insight!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 336 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (19:25) * 1 lines
I'm not leaving. I was just kidding. Actually, it's great to have a real archaelogist. Now we can all be enlightened in our dabbling.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 337 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jun 6, 2000 (23:47) * 2 lines
That's what I thought, actually! This man is man of charm and cultivation. He will correct us most kindly and gently
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 338 of 1283: Stephen C. Appleby (StephenA) * Thu, Jun 8, 2000 (03:12) * 1 lines
Who is this real live archaeologist? Perhaps I had better keep my incoherant ramblings about the origins of monuments to myself then. We wouldnt want anyone to get the wrong end of the stick would we? A man of charm and cultivation? That doesnt sound like many of the field archaeologists I know. Who is this mystery man Marci?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 339 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 8, 2000 (16:31) * 1 lines
Oh, not to worry abut him....he is someone who got bored and decided not to enter the commentary. Boring! Unimaginative and totally unresponsive. I think we are well done with him....probably just someone with ill humor and no affection in his heart for anything.......*smile*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 340 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 8, 2000 (16:32) * 1 lines
Your incoherent rambling are enchanting this reader. Please continue as thoughts enter your mind....*hugs*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 341 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 8, 2000 (16:38) * 1 lines
Stephen, Dear, anytine you wish to comment on your origin of monuments please do. My mind is travelling back to the places so familiar to my heart and I need to meet you there and for you to tell me what you are thinking.....please?!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 342 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 8, 2000 (19:45) * 1 lines
...*out of body experience*... wonder if I can summon up one for Wiltshire...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 343 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jun 9, 2000 (14:54) * 1 lines
Does anyone know if anymore has been discovered about the Henge monument at Marden? It was reputed to be the biggest yet known.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 344 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jun 9, 2000 (14:57) * 1 lines
On one of the trips to England we investigated what was visible, but there is precious little remaining of surface visibility and much of that was in a small wooded area.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 345 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Jun 9, 2000 (15:42) * 12 lines
There was another of the 'Secrets of Lost Empires' programmes on last night in he UK. I just checked, and they showed in the US earlier this year on PBS. Go and check the following URL for details. there's some really good photos and video footage.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/
The programme I saw was about 'Pharaoh's Obelisk'
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/raises.html
The soaring stone monuments known as obelisks were the Egyptian pharaohs' way of capturing a ray of revered sunlight in stone. In this section, follow NOVA's ultimately successful attempts to raise an obelisk of its own. Also, learn where ancient Egypt's obelisks have ended up today, explore other Egyptian monuments using QuickTime VR, and more.
this really is worth a look - GO SEE!!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 346 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Jun 9, 2000 (15:50) * 47 lines
(Yup i'm back on form - finding all sorts of stuff again)
This sounds interesting. No pix though. Found it when I was looking up on your earlier query. There's also a good Bibliography at http://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/consci/text_kn/knbiblio.htm
_______________________________________________________________________________
From http://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/consci/text_kn/knintro.htm
Introduction to the Knowlton henge complex
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The group of Late Neolithic henge monuments at Knowlton is generally recognised as one of the five most important enclosure complexes in Wessex at this time (Renfrew 1973; Wainwright 1989). These complexes consist primarily of massive earthwork enclosures up to 480m across, and often associated with other Late Neolithic monuments such as timber circles and monumental mounds. The importance of these complexes is demonstrated by their continued role in the Early Bronze Age when they became the focus for round barrow cemeteries. Nonetheless, despite their obvious significance, their function remains poorly understood.
Their role as the effective centres of Wessex have been stressed by several authors (Bradley and Chapman 1986; Wainwright 1989, 147), whilst it has also been noted that they may have acted in the maintenance of relations with other distant communities via the axe trade (Bradley 1984, 54). In terms of the activities which occurred within the henge enclosures, Burgess (1980, 326) argues that the Wessex henges may have held a permanent population of holy men or retainers to a chief. This view is supported by Mackie (1981) who goes a stage further by suggesting that we should compare the large henges of Wessex as being similar to Early Christian monastic sites, combining a ritual role with the domestic life of a resident population. The idea of both a domestic and a ritual role to henge enclosures appears to be supported by the evidence recovered from excavation at Durrington Walls, although the excavators were more cautious in their interpretations (Wainwright and Longworth 1971).
The potential for display at henge sites is also a popular theme in the interpretation of their function. This is a corollary of their design which places the bank outside the ditch thereby creating a grandstand effect from which audiences could view activities taking place in the centre (Burgess 1980, 237). If this is the case we could therefore argue that the role of the ditch was to act as a physical barrier between the observers and the observed, allowing a view, but not access. The suitability of henges to this role is amply shown by the Roman conversion of the henge of Maumbury Rings, Dorchester, into an amphitheatre. Nonetheless, we cannot assume that since we can see the value of henges as auditoriums that their builders held similar views. In this respect it should be noted that at Mount Pleasant the site was, for a time, surrounded by a timber palisade, which would have obstructed both visibility and access to the interior from the banks (Wainwright 1979). With such equivocal evidence, perhaps we
hould take the view of Darvill (1987, 81-2) that it is likely that henges fulfilled many functions, and indeed changed their role through time.
Extensive fieldwork has been carried out at and around four of these henge enclosures: Avebury (Smith 1965; Ucko et al 1991), Stonehenge and Durrington Walls (Wainwright and Longworth 1971; Richards 1990; Cleal et al 1995); Mount Pleasant (Wainwright 1979), and Marden (Wainwright 1971). At Knowlton however, little or no fieldwork has been carried out and, when this latter complex is mentioned in discussions of henge monuments, it is usually considered by analogy with these better known sites. The extent to which these analogies are accurate is unclear, and can only be resolved by considerable fieldwork in this little understood part of Wessex.
At first sight the lack of fieldwork at Knowlton is curious since just 500m to the north lies Cranborne Chase, where there has been considerable work in recent years in the examination of Neolithic landscape patterns (see Barrett et al 1991; Tilley 1994). These studies have demonstrated the importance of Cranborne Chase in the Early Neolithic, with the long barrows and the Dorset cursus forming obvious focal points for activity. Nonetheless, it seems equally clear that in the Later Neolithic, the local communities ceased building major monuments in Cranborne Chase and diverted their attention to the construction of the henge complex at Knowlton, just to the south (see area plan). That this geographical shift has been so little studied can be explained by examining the history of research in this part of Dorset.
Cranborne Chase is well known as the proving ground for the modern approach to archaeological fieldwork pioneered by General Pitt Rivers in the late 19th century (Barker 1977, 13). His excavations in the area included many famous sites such as Wor Barrow, South Lodge, and the Martin Down enclosure (Pitt Rivers 1898). Unfortunately for the study of British prehistory, the extent of the General's lands ended at the boundaries of Cranborne Chase, and Knowlton lay just outside of this area. The legacy of Pitt-Rivers' fieldwork appears to have acted as a magnet for archaeologists whose new research could refer back to the wealth of evidence he collected. As this level of data for the Neolithic of Cranborne Chase has increased, it seems to have become increasingly difficult to fit the relatively unknown complex at Knowlton into the picture. It is certainly apparent that it will be many years before the quantity of data concerning this latter area compares with that currently available in Cranborne Chase.
In order to make some first steps in rectifying this imbalance Bournemouth University has begun a series of free-standing projects at the Knowlton complex aiming to enhance the general level of knowledge in the area. Through this program of targeted research it is hoped to examine all of the major monuments in the immediate area through detailed survey and small excavation projects. This work will provide a framework, both for the interpretation of the role and extent of the Knowlton complex within the Allen valley, and also its relationship to the wider landscape of Cranborne Chase.
http://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/consci/text_kn/knback.htm
Background to the henge complex
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Site location
The complex of monuments at Knowlton lies in the parish of Woodlands which is in turn within East Dorset District Council (centred on SU02450994). It is situated c.2 miles south of Cranborne and c.6 miles north of Wimborne, around the junction of the B3078 and Lumber Lane which meet beside the bank of the Southern Circle. The most prominent site in the complex is the Church Henge which still survives as a substantial earthwork, and at which there is limited parking.
Complex period/type
Knowlton Rings consists of 4 earthworks: the North Circle, Church Circle, Southern Circle, and the 'Old Churchyard'. In addition to these sites, to the east of the Church Circle is the Great Barrow, the largest round barrow in Dorset, and almost certainly directly related to the henges. Within a one mile radius of these earthworks there are also a large number of barrows and ring-ditches with particular foci to the SSW and NE of the henges see site plan.
The Central and Southern Circle are generally seen on morphological grounds as being classic henges, while the North Circle was regarded by Harding and Lee (1987) as a 'possible henge'. The status of the 'Old Churchyard' is also uncertain although documentary research suggests that it pre-dates the medieval period.
Within the Church Circle is the ruin of Knowlton church which contains architectural features dating from the twelfth to the sixteenth centuries.
Detail of the church from southwest
A plan of the complex is included in the RCHM volume for East Dorset (RCHM 1975) which shows the four circles, the Great Barrow and the clusters of barrows and ring- ditches to the SSW and NE. Since this survey was completed further study in the area (Grinsell 1982, Papworth 1988) has revealed a number of new ring-ditches. In addition, the dry summer of 1995 has added considerably to our knowledge of sites within the Knowlton area, with two further enclosures being located by aerial photography, as well as confirmation that the outer ditch of the Great Barrow is discontinuous (Green pers. comm.).
Aerial view of henge complex
Previous work
The only published excavation within the area of the Knowlton complex prior to Bournemouth’s work was an examination of a pipe trench which cut a chord through the outer ditch of the Great Barrow revealing a skeleton dated by the excavators to the Anglo-Saxon period (Field 1962). More recently, in 1986 a programme of fieldwalking was carried out by the Allen Valley Fieldwalking Group. This focused on eight fields to the east of the B3078. Although it has not been possible to examine the material personally, interim publication noted a lithic scatter c.800m to the south of the Southern Circle (Hall 1988, 154-5).
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 347 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Jun 9, 2000 (15:58) * 44 lines
Even more ..... Hey I found the Journal British Archeology is freely available online - full articles. The following item is from Issue no 43, April 1999. and follows the discussion we had earlier about barrows and a Time Team excavation. Check it out.
http://britac3.britac.ac.uk//cba/ba/ba43/ba43feat.html
Bury the dead in a sacred landscape
Bronze Age barrows are often found near rivers, lakes and springs. David Field explains why
Where did Bronze Age people bury their dead? Where were the favoured locations for their round barrows? For years, there has been an unquestioned assumption within archaeology that over 3,000 years ago people preferred to site barrows on the tops of hills and ridges, or on the `false crests' of prominent hills, as these were places that commanded the widest view.
Quite why this incorrect assumption has prevailed may be partly because it offers an enduring image of funeral ceremonies taking place at visually dramatic points in the landscape. Archaeologists have also tended to focus on the relatively few surviving barrows on the chalk downs, while paying less attention to the greater number of flattened barrows in lower locations such as lower hill slopes and river valleys.
Recent surveys of the evidence as a whole across large tracts of southern England suggest, in fact, that relatively few barrows were positioned on the highest points in the landscape. Most were rather built on sloping ground, usually on the middle or lower slopes of a hill, where drainage is good. Remarkably large numbers were also sited close to springs, lakes, or rivers, sometimes in the valley floor but often along the upper reaches of the river. It is difficult to escape the conclusion that water and well-drained soils were deliberately sought out for the location of Bronze Age barrow cemeteries.
These observations allow us to revise our interpretation of certain aspects of Bronze Age funeral practice. The idea of the existence of `ritual landscapes' in prehistory is now well-established, and from ethnographic records we know that many non-western societies regard the whole landscape as imbued with sacred or mythological significance. It is easy to imagine how features such as caves and springs might be thought to provide a point of contact with the spirit world.
Seen in this light, the positioning of barrow cemeteries may suggest a funeral practice in the British Bronze Age as much concerned with the sanctity of the landscape as with status display, leaderveneration and other such traditional interpretations.
It has long been thought that surviving barrow cemeteries tend to cluster in certain restricted areas - such as, for example, around Stonehenge and Avebury. This clustering has been said to reflect the location of the summer pastures of a transhumant community, or the presence of settlement nearby, or even the existence of a property or territorial boundary. It has also been argued that earlier monuments attract later ones around them.
The assumption has been, however, that these concentrations are genuine. In fact the areas where barrows exist today as earthworks appear to be amongst the few that have escaped episodes of intensive cultivation during the Roman, medieval and later periods.
Recent research by the English Royal Commission in North-East Yorkshire indicates that there is greater chance of survival where barrows are located on steeper ground rather than on gentler slopes, and this is likely to be the case for the southern chalk too. Many large clusters may have been lost long ago. Air photography has revealed many such levelled cemeteries and the emphasis has shifted as a result. The concentration of ring ditches on the Isle of Thanet in Kent, for example, compares with extant barrow distribution around Stonehenge.
Pioneering work by Peter Woodward and Stephen Green in the Great Ouse valley of Cambridgeshire during the 1970s helped to draw attention to the number of levelled round barrows along river valleys. Here, over 400 ring-ditches, most of them likely to be levelled barrows, occurred in often quite large clusters at intervals along the river terrace.
Along the Avon valley, in Wiltshire, air photographs show that a string of levelled barrow cemeteries extend all the way to the river's source, close to the great henge at Marden. A similar pattern can be seen around other rivers, for example the Wylye, Nine Mile River, and the Kennet, all in Wessex, as well as elsewhere.
Other water features may also have been important markers. In Hampshire, for example, some barrows tend to focus on lakes and meres.
New surveys of surviving barrows in the south-east of England, Salisbury Plain, and the Marlborough Downs have also offered a different perspective. Even among surviving examples, few are found on the highest points in the landscape. Instead barrows are found on middle or lower slopes or around the foot of a hill. Sometimes low ridges in the lee of higher hills were used. Many cemeteries of barrows on the chalk - such as Ladywell Barrows, near Imber on Salisbury Plain, Rockley on the Marlborough Downs, and the Seven Barrows at Lambourne in Berkshire - can in fact be interpreted better as groups located around the heads of valleys or at places where springs formerly emerged.
If we accept that barrows may have been placed near rivers and springs for sacred reasons, it remains to ask what those sacred reasons might be. No answer is certain. But it is nonetheless interesting that in China, cemeteries have for centuries been placed in carefully chosen positions in the landscape. Ideally such sites are well-drained - to allow the life-force to `drain away' - being situated on slopes with a water feature or sump at the foot, and sheltered from supposedly evil north winds by a mountain or hill. These factors are considered of such importance that where no natural drainage feature is present a ditch is often dug to provide one.
In a sacred landscape, prominent landscape features often develop their own mythology. In this light, it may be no accident that the many barrows along the South Downs escarpment are not mirrored by a similar distribution on the North Downs. The South Downs escarpment faces north, the North Downs face south. The North Downs escarpment therefore receives more light - encouraging different vegetation - and the complementing opposites of light and shade, north and south, could perhaps have had some sacred significance; albeit one whose exact meaning may no longer be recoverable.
It also seems that a concept of harmony within the landscape may have played some part in the placing of burial mounds. Barrow cemeteries are rarely geometric, but are often aesthetically pleasing. The final plan often seems to have been deliberately arranged, even though individual barrows may have been constructed over centuries.
A number of barrow cemeteries may also have been aligned on celestial features, along a north-east/south-west axis. The barrow cemetery at Winterbourne Stoke crossroads, near Stonehenge, is perhaps the best known example. This is the same alignment incorporated in Stonehenge itself, in a number of other stone circles and also in typical middle Bronze Age co-axial field systems (see BA, November 1997, May 1998).
The Bronze Age landscape, therefore, appears to have been arranged according to a cosmological plan that was widely understood and accepted. Now, the latest survey work suggests that the burial mounds of the dead, like the monuments, field systems, and possibly even domestic architecture of the living, were ordered according to a system in which the landscape itself played a defining role.
David Field is an archaeologist with the English Royal Commission (RCHME), which merged this month with English Heritage
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 348 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Jun 9, 2000 (16:02) * 2 lines
Comments on any of this anyone?????
One bit that stuck out for me in the above article was 'In a sacred landscape, prominent landscape features often develop their own mythology'. That seems to link in with the item we had earlier in geomyth about Aboriginal 'songlines' in Australia. I haven't come across this in Africa yet but I will ask questions when I am in Mali in October.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 349 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jun 9, 2000 (16:10) * 1 lines
In the January/February 2000 issue of Archaeology Magazine new findings at Avebury, one of which is a woodhenge similar to the one near Stonehenge were discussed. Near Stonehenge there are several including Durrington Walls which has quite a large one and a smaller one which will never be fully excavated because a housing estate was built squarely atop most of the entire area. Has anymore informations come out of the study of Avebury's newly rediscovered woodhenge or the Beckhampton / West Kennet Avenues? I have Burl's book on Avebury but it was written before any of these new finds. Would appreciate an update if you have one!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 350 of 1283: Stephen C. Appleby (StephenA) * Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (14:15) * 1 lines
I have read the above postings on ritual and scared landscapes....a lot of the ideas I have researched for my thesis...so as soon as I cut out the technical jargon I will try and post something coherant on the subject...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 351 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (15:10) * 1 lines
Aloha Stephen. We await your posting with great anticipation (having read the entire thesis with great pleasure) and encouraging you to take your time as we exercise patience. I am delighted that you are posting here *smile*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 352 of 1283: Curious Wolfie (wolf) * Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (15:35) * 1 lines
oh new blood! haha, welcome stephen. don't mind me, i'm just a little wolfie.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 353 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (15:44) * 1 lines
Vampire Wolfie strikes again...*grin*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 354 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (15:47) * 1 lines
sorry.....off topic drift again.....*sigh*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 355 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (17:55) * 1 lines
(Now where's Buffy when we need her? guess the house male's monopolising her again! - sorry, it's late and I'm goofy!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 356 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (19:20) * 2 lines
*laugh* Oh dear, second childhood or just burgeoning manhood there? He is in good company. There is an entire topic for the program in the TV conference...
(Am surprised there is not a Babes conference one as well...I have one there!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 357 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (02:36) * 1 lines
(I don't!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 358 of 1283: Curious Wolfie (wolf) * Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (10:24) * 1 lines
(yet!)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 359 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (14:21) * 1 lines
I think the creator of same is no longer creating. Mine for John was the last one of that sort I did in Screwed...and Male Babes taught me not to do that again..!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 360 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (18:30) * 9 lines
From NASA's children's site:
For several days following June 16, the Moon will appear nearly full and, of
course, there's another full Moon every month. Each one hovers above the
horizon for a while as it rises, triggering the 'Moon Illusion.' The
illusion simply lasts longer for northern observers near the time of the
summer solstice.
(Oh to be at any stone circle in the British Isles about now...*sigh*)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 361 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (18:31) * 1 lines
It has the same effect on the recumbent stone in the Scottish circles?!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 362 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (10:56) * 5 lines
I cut this out to post ages ago - and lost it in the debris. From the Sunday Times April 14
Bespectacled warriors who terrorised ancient Britain
The mere sight of their double horned battle helmets was enough to strike fear into the hearts of the Brits. But as archeologists have discovered the Vikings who rampaged across Britain and Europe also wore something a little less daunting on their heads - spectacles! Clear disks uncovered at Viking settlements in Sweden, which were at first thought to be jewellery are in fact sophisticated lenses. German scientists who examined the finds were astounded by the standard reached by ancient opticians who were working between 700 and 1000 AD. the principles they used to make these lenses were not really understood until many centuries later, yet these people managed to employ these principles to create lenses that were perfect for a wide variety of uses. Their cut is practically perfect and the surface is almost perfectly elliptic. The optical quality can be compared with that of modern spectacles. But the archeologists who found the lenses at settlements in Gotland say that they don't prove the Vikings were a
y more civilised than previously thought. It is thought that they probably stole the lenses from merchant caravans that travelled across from eastern Europe or the Byzantine Empire. The Vikings were always raiding the Byzantines and once they realised what these lenses could be used for they would have been much prized. The size of the lenses also indicates that some were used to make the first crude telescopes, 500 years earlier than the Dutch opticians thought to have invented them for seafarers. the largest had a radius of 50mm and a thickness of 30mm.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 363 of 1283: (sprin5) * Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (12:53) * 1 lines
Interesting image, big hulking Vikings wearing glasses. I wonder if they had shades too?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 364 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (13:06) * 1 lines
That is amazing. I am wondering how the ground the lenses and how they calibrated them one with the other. Nothing is worse than glasses whose lenses do not match. It makes me seasick-feeling. Despite my favoring gentlemen who wear them, I somehow cannot imagine how it helped their image as fearsome warriors (from whose loins the Hemming lineage arose.) I am wondering why it did not get more press. That is amazing, as I said...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 365 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (17:33) * 1 lines
there was a rather fanciful line drawing attached, but my scanne is offline just now, and I wasn't convinced!!! I think the Byzantine point of origin would be an interesting line to follow and see if there is more anywhere on their techniques and use of telescopes.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 366 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (19:14) * 23 lines
This from Reuters which is probably old news to some but new to me:
Scientists Probe Riddle of Stonehenge Skeleton
LONDON (Reuters) - The skeleton of a man executed up to 2,100 years ago at Stonehenge, Britain's greatest prehistoric monument, was shown in public for the first time Friday.
The bones, which date from between 100 BC and 1000 AD, were first unearthed in 1923 and stored in London, where they were thought to have been destroyed in
the Nazi Blitz in 1941, according to government conservation body, English Heritage.
The skeleton was found to have survived by author Mike Pitts during research for a book about the giant stone circle in western England.
After using modern forensic techniques, scientists have concluded that the man did not die of natural causes as had been thought but was the victim of an execution.
Archaeologist Jacqueline McKinley said the man, who was about 35, died from violent beheading. There is a small nick on the lower jaw and a cut
on the fourth neck vertebra, indicating he was beheaded by a sharp sword.
"Why he was executed is not known," English Heritage said. "But it is
possible that he was singled out for special punishment, as Stonehenge clearly represents a dramatic and important site for the event and the man's burial."
Scientists are using carbon-dating techniques to try to find out exactly when the man died. It is only the fourth complete skeleton to have been found at Stonehenge, a World Heritage Site built between 3050 BC and 1600 BC.
http://news.excite.com/news/r/000609/09/science-britain-stonehenge-dc/
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 367 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (04:31) * 1 lines
I think i must hae missed that too. curious!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 368 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (11:23) * 1 lines
Bespectacled Vikings. Now there's an image. It has been surmised that a lot of the reason for the bad press the Vikings got was due to the fact that they weren't Christians. At least not in the early stages of their entry onto the world stage. They particularly favored raiding monasteries and church, as the Church was rich. Since monks were virtually the only people who were literate then -- it was they who wrote what survives from that time.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 369 of 1283: Stephen C. Appleby (StephenA) * Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (14:12) * 43 lines
Cognicized, Conceptualized and Cultural Landscapes - Some brief thoughts on new
approaches to landscape archaeology.
The concept of ‘ritual landscape’ is one which still runs through much of the writing on
prehistory. This term is, however, outmoded and outdated for the very reason that it
attempts to compartmentalize prehistoric landscapes into the ‘economic’ and the
‘ritual’, the ‘sacred’ and the ‘profane’. There is, however, no evidence that such a
demarcation existed in the past and we should really be looking at landscapes as a
whole and not attempting to categorize them into areas that, although they may make
life easier for the archaeologist, had little or no relevance in prehistory. So where are
we to start when attempting to understand prehistoric landscapes? As mentioned
already the term ‘ritual landscape’ is not one that should be relied on too heavily.
Neither should interpretations based on the breaking down of landscapes into the
‘normal’ categories of Neolithic, Bronze Age and Iron Age landscapes be approached
uncritically. In the past landscapes, and the monuments contained within the landscape,
have been approached mainly in terms of the monuments themselves. So much has
been written about sites such as Stonehenge and Avebury in Britain, and comparable
monuments in America, such as Cahokia, that it is often easy to forget that the
monuments themselves are only a small part of the picture. We must never lose sight of
the fact that what we are looking at is a ‘cultural landscape’, a landscape that is not
only a product of human activity and manipulation, but is conceptualized and perceived
in the minds of the people interacting with their lived environment. This idea of
‘cognitive landscapes’ is one that may take some time to come to terms with, but the
lived landscape is as much a cultural and cosmological construct as a more easily
recognizable piece of material culture. The crux of this argument is based around the
idea that manipulation of the landscape, and the construction of monuments is not
solely related to the kind of economic determinizm suggested by Colin Renfrew
(1973). If we look beyond the monuments themselves, at the landscape, the scatters of
artefacts around unaltered ‘natural’ places and at anthropological study of significant
places in the landscape, it is possible to see that the concepts that up until relatively
recently have been associated solely with the construction of the earliest monuments,
have their origins much further back in prehistory. If we look at studies of Australian
Aboriginal culture (see especially Josephine Flood - The Archaeology of the
Dreamtime), and various studies of Native American society, we can see that the ideas
more normally associated with the building of monuments within the landscape are
much more concerned with developments in human thought patterns and cognitive
evolution than in any kind of economic determinizm. If we want to study the
development of landscapes over time it is much more important that from now on we
look at the landscape as an evolving entity rather than as a series of monumental sites
associated with specific periods in prehistory. If we use this approach in conjunction
with more recent work on developments in human cognition, then we may have a
much better chance of understanding, not just prehistoric landscapes, but of prehistory
as a whole.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 370 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (15:57) * 2 lines
Stephen, Thank you seem hardly adequate to express my delight with your posting.
It is fascinating. Being able to walk the places they walked must be almost a religious experience, for those who have the ability and empathy to feel their presence. One day I shall return and feel that once again.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 371 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (16:57) * 27 lines
Woven cloth dates back 27,000 years
Clay bearing a textile imprint together with a cast
By BBC News Online science editor Dr David
Whitehouse
Woven clothing was being produced on looms 27,000
years ago, far earlier than had been thought, scientists
say.
It had been thought that the first farmers developed
weaving 5,000 to 10,000 years ago.
But Professor Olga Soffer, of the University of Illinois,
is about to publish details in the journal Current
Anthropology of 90 fragments of clay that have
impressions from woven fibres.
Professor Soffer revealed some her findings recently
when she said that a 25,000-year-old figurine was
wearing a woven hat.
If confirmed, her work could change our understanding
of distant ancestors, the so-called Ice Age hunters of
the Upper Palaeolithic Stone Age.
More at......http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_790000/790569.stm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 372 of 1283: Stephen C. Appleby (StephenA) * Sun, Jun 18, 2000 (08:29) * 247 lines
Domesticates, Monuments, Death & Society.
Some brief thoughts on the adoption of agriculture in Neolithic Europe.
One of the great paradoxes and debates surrounding interpretations of
Neolithic society in Europe is to what extent did the adoption of agriculture create the
hypothesized ideas of social stratification deemed by some necessary for the
construction of the earliest monuments. Colin Renfrew (1973) suggested that in order
to create the correct social and economic stratification necessary for the construction
of the earliest Neolithic monuments, it is necessary to have an agrarian economy in
place before hand. At the opposite end of the spectrum Julian Thomas (1999) argues
that at the time the earliest monuments were constructed in Britain, the evidence for an
economy based almost solely on agriculture is practically non existent. As usual the
real truth lies somewhere these two polar opposites, although my own opinion on
reassessment of the evidence (evidence which admittedly Renfrew would not have had
access to) is that the ‘truth’, if indeed truth is a concept applicable to prehistory, is
probably much closer to the Julian Thomas view than to Renfrew’s. So how are we to
solve this problem that has caused so much debate and controversy in the past?
Perversely it is not to the biological remains that we should turn first, but to the
monuments themselves, but first we must look at ourselves, and at the development of
the human mind.
Steven Mithen (1996) has pointed out that the cognitive abilities to produce
not just functional stone tools, but also items of quite breathtaking beauty, were in
place as far back as the Upper Palaeolithic at least. The adoption of agriculture then
can not be seen as a quantum leap in human cognition as has sometimes been
suggested in Childesque ideas of some form of ‘Neolithic Revolution’. What we are in
fact seeing is a very small part of a long term process, a process that may not
necessarily, in its initial stages at least, have been consciously embarked upon at all.
This raises another question as to who domesticated what? Did prehistoric
communities domesticate plants, or was it the other way round. The major change in
the Mesolithic / Neolithic transition was not the beginnings of the use of domesticates
per-se but the construction of the first monuments. This has in turn led to deterministic
theories about environmental and economic change being responsible for the social
change and the social stratification thought necessary for the origins of monumentality.
By looking at a couple of case studies it is hoped to show that the transition from a
hunter / fisher / gatherer (HFG) based economy, to an economy based on agriculture
was a much longer term event that did not really reach an intensive level into well into
the Iron Age.
The table above shows some of the arguments put forward both for and against
continuity and change in the Meso. / Neo. transition. Archaeology, however,
obstinately refuses to fall into such neat columns.
Let us now examine some of the changes that occurred in the earlier Neolithic
to see whether or not we can identify the origins of ideas most usually associated with
the Neolithic back into the Mesolithic. In my own research into the origins of
monumentality, I have suggested that perhaps the concepts associated with
monuments at least can be traced back into the forest environment of the Mesolithic
(Appleby, 2000). I have also suggested that perhaps manipulation of woodland in the
Neolithic may not, in fact, be purely for economic reasons but that perhaps Neolithic
communities were creating a kind of ‘aesthetic of landscape’ associated as much with
phenomenology and cosmology as with economy (ibid.). Rather than outlining the
main points of that paper again I now propose to look at some of the more general
concepts associated with the Neolithic in Britain and Europe, and see how these can be
used to fit in with the idea that adoption of an agrarian economy was somehow a
determining factor in the construction of earlier Neolithic monuments.
The first monuments to appear in the British Neolithic are the long barrows and
long cairns associated with ritual disposal of the dead. Writers such as Renfrew (1973)
have postulated that perhaps these can be seen as boundary or territorial markers in the
landscape. These in some way define the boundaries between different groups of early
agriculturalists, and were primarily built by utilizing an agricultural surplus to feed the
people building the monuments. This suggests a certain amount of social hierarchy and
complexity, with the elite at the top being able to co-opt and coerce their social
underlings. Robert Chapman (1981) was also suggested that perhaps the building of
early Neolithic burial mounds in some way marks out not only territory, but also
creates a sense of ‘belonging’ to a certain place, and therefore to a certain territory by
the placing of the ancestors into these mortuary monuments. In this sense the ancestors
almost become a separate species, still living in the landscape inside the monuments.
These socio-economic views are very much a product of their time, and very
processual in origin. Other than the monuments themselves there is no real evidence to
back this theory up. The pollen diagrams for this period suggest that at the time the
first mortuary monuments were constructed around 90% of the British Isles would
have been covered in primary woodland (Bennett, 1989). This immediately discounts
certain aspects of the theory on two counts. Firstly, by its very nature primary
woodland is not really conjusive to any intensive form of agriculture, other than a
shifting garden based agriculture. Also the idea of early mortuary monuments being a
kind of ‘visual boundary’ between the territorial claims of different social groups does
not really work either because, unless you are Superman and have some sort of highly
developed x-ray vision, getting clear lines of sight through areas of primary forest is
impossible. Certainly, these monuments would not have been constructed at random,
but at places that had significance to the communities that built them. This significance,
however, can not really be equated to the adoption of agriculture as the evidence
suggests otherwise. What we need to do is look at the symbolism associated with these
monuments and try and base our interpretations on this.
The symbolism associated with eralier Neolithic is notoriously difficult to
interpret and it is not our place here to really try and understand the whole sequence.
Very basically what we see in the earlier Neolithic is burials of groups of individuals
under long mounds or lang cairns, some of these, such as Waylands Smithy in
Berkshire, are built on top of earlier burials. Richard Bradley (1998) has suggested that
these long mounds can be seen as symbolic ‘houses of the dead’, and indeed, at some
Linearbandkeramik sites on the edge of the loess in continental Europe, there is
evidence that suggests that houses of the dead were constructed directly on top of the
foundations of earlier dwelling places. Certainly these ideas have a number of
ethnographic parallels where houses of the deceased are destroyed and avoided, as
they are still associated with the presence and spirit of the dead person. Perhaps then
this is a more feasible explanation, with symbolic aspects of the ‘house of the dead’
being more important than associations with social hierarchies and the rise of the
individual. The individual does not really become visible in the archaeology of the
Neolithic until much later, with the introduction of single inhumations in the later
Neolithic and early Bronze Age.
What I am not suggesting here is that in some way domesticates came to be
adopted much later than has previously been suggested. Certainly, there is evidence
from the earlier Neolithic that domesticated animals had been introduced from
continental Europe in the 4th Millenia BCE. My argument is based around the idea that
in the earlier Neolithic there was not the wholesale adoption of domesticates as
previously theorized. What we see is a rather more gradual adoption of domesticates,
and in the intial phases at least, these would have been used alongside collected natural
resources. There are many ideas that can be brought into this equation, not only for the
building of monuments and the adoption of agriculture, but for the social ideas in place
at the time. Gender theory is one approach that needs to be considered. Watson and
Kennedy (1998) have forwarded the idea that even if we use the traditional
androcentric man the hunter / woman the gatherer roles for prehistory, it is still
possible to see that perhaps women’s role in the adoption of agriculture was greater
than has previously been realized. Also by looking at the symbolism associated with
changes in material culture over time, and by looking at this in its landscape context,
inculding studying how landscape usage changed over time, it should be possible ot get
a much better idea of the role changing exploitation changed over time. By looking at
how concepts of time, space and place developed as societies developed from a HFG
economy to an agrarian one, and how this manifested itself in material culture and in
developing ideologies and cosmologies, we should hopefully better be able to
understand not just the economic and environmental implications of an increased
reliance on domesticates, but the social implications too.
These are no more than random thoughts, based on my own past research. I
have not tried to back much of what I have said up with any in depth studies of
excavation reports and recent theoretical developments. These thoughts were mainly
pulled in a fairly incoherant form off the top of my head. Hopefull though there are
some ideas here that can be used in your paper in conjunction with other evidence. The
bibliography below will also hopefully be of some help.
Bibliography:
Allen, M.J. 1997. Environment and Land Use: The Economic Development of the
Communites who built Stonehenge (an Economy to Support the Stones), in
Cunliffe, B. & Renfrew, C. Science and Stonehenge: 115-144. Oxford: Oxford
University Press.
Appleby, S.C. (2000) Beetles, Bones & Standing Stones - An archaeological and
anthropological study of the origins of monuments is a wooded landscape.
Unpublished BA Dissertation, University of Reading.
Barrett, J.C. 1994. Fragments from Antiquity - An Archaeology of Social life in
Britain 2900 - 1200 BC. Oxford & Cambridge (MA): Blackwells.
Bell, M. & Walker, M.J.C. 1992. Late Quaternary Environmental Change: Physical
and Human Perspectives. Harlow: Longman.
Bennett, K.D. 1989. A Provisional Map of Forest Types for the British Isles 5000
Years Ago, Journal of Quaternary Science 4: 141-144.
Bradley, R. 1984. The Social Foundations of Prehistoric Britain: Themes and
Variations in the Archaeology of Power. Harlow & New York: Longman.
Bradley, R. 1993. Altering the Earth: The Origins of Monuments in Britain and
Continental Europe. Edinburgh: Society of Antiquaries of Scotland
Monograph Series No. 8
Bradley, R.J. 1998. The Significance of Monuments. London and New York:
Routledge.
Bradley, R.J. 2000. An Archaeology of Natural Places. London & New York:
Routledge.
Caseldine, A.E. 1984. Palaeobotanical Investigations at the Sweet Track, Somerset
Levels Papers 10: 65-78.
Caseldine, A. 1988. A Wetland Resource: The Evidence for the Environmental
Exploitation in the Somerest Levels during the Prehistoric Period, in Murphy,
P. & French, C. (eds.), The Exploitation of the Wetlands: 239-265. Oxford:
B.A.R.
Chapman, R. 1981. The Emergence of Formal Disposal Areas and the ‘Problem’ of
Megalithic Tombs in Prehistoric Europe, in Chapman, R., Kinnes, I. &
Randsborg, K. (eds.), The Archaeology of Death: 71-81. Cambridge, New
York and Melbourne: Cambridge University Press.
Cleal, R.M.J., Walker K.E & Montague, R. (eds.). 1995. Stonehenge in it’s
Landscape: Twentieth Century Excavations. London: English Heritage
Archaeological Report No. 10.
Coles, B. 1988. Fossil Insect assemblages from the Somerset Levels: The work of
Maureen Girling, in Murphy, P. & French, C. The Exploitation of the
Wetlands: 5-20. Oxford: B.A.R.
Coles, B. & J. 1995. Enlarging the Past. Edinburgh: Society of Antiquaries of
Scotland Monograph No. 11.
Coles, B. & J. 1989. People of the Wetlands - Bogs, Bodies and Lake Dwellers.
London: Thames & Hudson.
Coles, B. & J. 1986. Sweet Track to Glastonbury. London: Thames & Hudson.
Coles, J. 1984. The Archaeology of Wetlands. Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press.
Conkey, M.W. & Gero, J.M. 1991. Tensions, Pluralities and Engendering
Archaeology: An Introduction to Women and Prehistory, in Gero, J.M. &
Conkey, M.W. (eds.), Engendering Archaeology: Women and Prehistory:
3-30. Oxford & Malden (MA): Blackwells.
Conkey, M.W. & Spector, J. 1984. Archaeology and the Study of Gender, in
Hays-Gilpin K. & Whitely, D.S. (eds.), (1998) Reader in Gender Archaeology:
11-45. Oxford & New York: Routledge.
Darvill, T. 1987. Prehistoric Britain. London & New York: Routledge.
Darvill, T. 1997. Ever Decreasing Circles: The Sacred Geographies of Stonehenge
and it’s Landscape, in Cunliffe, B & Renfrew, C. (eds.), Science and
Stonehenge: 167-202. Oxford & New York: Oxford University Press for The
British Academy.
Edmonds, M. 1999. Ancestral Geographies of the Neolithic. London & New York:
Routledge.
Evans, J.G. 1999. Land & Archaeology - Histories of Human Environment in the
British Isles. Stroud & Charleston (SC): Tempus.
Hirsch, E. 1995. Landscape: Between Place and Space, in Hirsch E. and O’Hanlon,
M. (eds.), The Anthropology of Landscape: Perspectives on Place and Space:
1-30. Oxford: Clarendon Press.
Mithen, S. 1996. The Prehistory of the Mind. London: Thames & Hudson.
Orme, B. 1981. Anthropology for Archaeologists. London: Duckworth.
Parker-Pearson, M. 1993. Bronze Age Britain. London: Batsford.
Richards, J. 1990. The Stonehenge Environs Project. London: English Heritage.
Richards, J. 1991. Stonehenge. London: Batsford / English Heritage.
Thomas, J. 1999. Understanding the Neolithic. London & New York: Routledge.
Tilley, C. 1994. A Phenomenology of Landscape - Places, Paths and Monuments.
Oxford & Providence (RI): Berg.
Watson, P.J. & Kennedy, M.C. 1998. The Development of Horticulture in the
Eastern Woodlands of North America: Women’s Role, in Hays-Gilpin &
Whitely, D.S. (eds.), Reader in Gender Archaeology: 173-190. Oxford & New
York: Routledge.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 373 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jun 18, 2000 (15:59) * 1 lines
Where do I begin...?! Stephen, this is wonderful stuff. Many questions are tumbling around in my head which are vying for answers and attention. I seem to need to be brought up to date with the literature much as the authors do whose books I rely on. Your sharing your expertise with us makes me both delighted and aware of the gaps in my understanding of the most recent findings and interpretations. More when I absorb this posting, and thank you for including the bibliography.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 374 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jun 18, 2000 (22:44) * 3 lines
If you can email me the file containing the table I will post it for you.
American education standards fall so far below English standards that your BA thesis would probably be worthy of a MSc or higher. I wish you would publish in a journal and get proper credit for your insight and analysis. I am stunned and amazed by your brilliance. ...and, you quoted from "The Hobbit"
Thank you!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 375 of 1283: anne hale (ommin) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (08:55) * 2 lines
Thank you Stephen for that erudite theory, I have read about and looked at with much interest, iron age forts on the North Downs and the Harrow Way, a roadway across the top of the downs, and in particular the prominent roadway not far from Boxhill and Mickleham. Also have seen and pondered the many standing stones and barrows in Wales. I certainly found what you had to say most interesting and found it answered some of the queries I have held. Now a question -
I have read somewhere and have spoken too about the subject a late lamented friend who was quite knowledgable having travelled to many different places(Roger Price)- about the possibility of a great civilisation before the great flood which took place in the middle east many thousands of years ago. I have been to the end of the great rift valley just outside Eilat in the Negev and witnessed for myself the proof of such a flood which actually happened in ancient times. Our Israeli guide made a great show of pointing out the sea shells and marine debris embedded in the rock. How do you all think on this?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 376 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (15:20) * 1 lines
Anne, not trying toaddress the Archaeolgy, but rather the geology... there are sea fossils in the rocky mountains. Mountains are push-up of ancient sea beds. This does not necessarily mean The Flood did not happen but that there are other reasons for the shells atop the mountains in Israel.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 377 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (16:41) * 1 lines
There is a theory that the Flood was actually an account of the drastic rise in the level of the Black Sea at the end of the Ice Age.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 378 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (17:38) * 1 lines
That epoch was full of such disastrous flooding and land transformation. It was during this time that Britain became islands separate from Europe.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 379 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (17:40) * 1 lines
Which is why they are known as continental islands, having once been part of a larger continent, but later seperated from the larger land mass.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 380 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (17:43) * 1 lines
Yup *smile*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 381 of 1283: anne hale (ommin) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (21:50) * 1 lines
I fear I did not explain myself properly. The sea shells and other marine detritus was in a line two inches deep more than half way down the valley. It was situated at the King Solomon's Mine (copper I think from memory) It was a strange place - slaves worked there and graffitti from that time was carved into the rock walls on either side of an ancient roadway. A temple of sorts was situated half way up where the slaves worshipped their gods. Well worth a visit.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 382 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (21:59) * 1 lines
Fascinating, Anne...Have you pictures or shall I hunt for some?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 383 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (22:08) * 1 lines
Stephen, feel free to return to your subject (of which you have much more to say!) or wade in on this...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 384 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jun 20, 2000 (16:00) * 78 lines
Been there and was revolted when we guess the wrong day for the solstice travesty at Stonehenge and landed right in the middle of it.
Tuesday June 20, 3:09 PM BBC News
The lure of Stonehenge
The public can celebrate summer solstice at Stonehenge on Wednesday
for the first time more than a decade. What is the appeal of this
ancient stone circle?
Perhaps none have expressed the magic and mystery that is Stonehenge
quite so, er, eloquently as mock rock gods Spinal Tap.
In the imaginatively titled Stonehenge, the band thrash out a tribute
to the ring of stones:
"Stonehenge, where the demons dwell, where the banshees live and they
do live well,Stonehenge, where a man is a man and the children dance
to the pipes of pan,Stonehenge, 'tis a magic place where the moon
doth rise with a dragon's face."
Come the dawn of midsummer on 21 June, members of the public can try
to tap into the magic for the first time in 15 years.
About 10,000 people - curious tourists, New Age revellers and pagan
worshippers - are expected to mark the summer solstice at sunrise,
free to wander in and around the stones.
English Heritage banned solstice celebrations in 1985, and later
threw up a perimeter fence crowned with barbed wire, following a
nasty showdown between riot police and revellers.
The demonstrators had taken exception to the National Trust
injunction against their plans to stage a free festival in and around
the World Heritage Site. The resulting clash, in which 700 people
were arrested, became known as the Battle of the Beanfield.
Trouble also brewed at last year's invitation-only event, when
gatecrashers clambered onto the stones.
Secrets of the ancients
What is it about this 5,000-year-old ring of moss-covered stones with
a scenic view of the A303 that exerts such strange pulling power?
Perhaps it is the mystery that shrouds the origins of the monument.
It remains unclear to this day for what purpose the stones were
erected on Salisbury Plain - was Stonehenge intended to be a temple,
a burial ground or a calendar?
Almost the only common belief among Stonehenge scholars is that the
stones are aligned with both the winter and summer solstices.
When the midsummer sun rises directly over the heel stone, it marks
the turning of the season and the approaching harvest season. At
midwinter, the sun rises over a stone on the opposite side of the
circle.
Haul halted
The site is thought to date back to about 3100BC, when it was little
more than a ditch and a circle of round holes cut into the chalk.
Cremated human bones have been excavated from the site.
It was abandoned soon after, and left untouched for more than 1,000
years.
Some experts believe bluestones from the Preseli Hills in southwest
Wales were heaved 240 miles on sleds and boats to the Wiltshire site
in about 2150BC.
It is this journey that the ill-fated Millennium Stone project has
attempted to recreate. The three-tonne stone is now 17m under water
off the Pembrokeshire coast after sinking over the weekend.
By 2000BC, sarsen stones were erected, with the largest weighing in
at 50 tonnes. Modern calculations show that it would have taken 500
men to pull one stone.
Within 150 years, the bluestones were rearranged in the horseshoe and
circle seen today. Originally, there were 60 stones in the circle but
many have since crumbled.
The joint chief of the British Druid Order, Greywolf, explains on the
order's website why worshippers beat a path to the ancient site.
"Having felt the resonance of the stones responding to the beat of a
drum, having heard the voices of our ancestors join in the Awen
chant, having seen the priests and priestesses of elder times walk
among the stones, I could hardly fail to recognise the power of the
place."
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 385 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Tue, Jun 20, 2000 (19:13) * 1 lines
This is as good a place as any to post this as any. Happy Summer Solstice, unless of course you're in the southern hemisphere, then Happy Winter Solstice. In Europe the Summer Soltice became associated with the Feast of St. John the Baptist, actually June 23. The association is similar to that of the Winter Solstice with the Feast of Christmas, Dec. 25. Traditionally in rural France St. John's Day was when marriage proposals were made.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 386 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jun 20, 2000 (19:30) * 1 lines
I was going to look for something appropriate like the sun rising over the "heel" stone...I just might yet. Thanks for reminding me...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 387 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jun 20, 2000 (19:44) * 1 lines
(Yes, Stephen, I know that the only reason the sun rises over the "heel" - or "hele" - stone is because it has fallen out of the upright position at which it originally stood... and that neither name is appropriate for the stone, anyway.)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 388 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 21, 2000 (19:42) * 0 lines
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 389 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 21, 2000 (19:48) * 44 lines
Millennium project to move bluestone from Wales to Stonehenge
A six-month journey to discover how the builders of Stonehenge
transported giant Welsh stones from the Welsh mountains is set to get
under way.
It remains a mystery how the huge blue stones from the Preseli
mountains were dragged 200 miles to the ancient ceremonial site.
But a group of volunteers from The National Trust and Pembrokeshire
College are attempting to finally discover the methods used to move
the stones using a rock called the Millennium Stone.
They plan to re-enact a possible route of the Stone Age builders
using methods they will first rehearse at Withybush Aerodrome, near
Haverfordwest.
International engineering company Whitby Bird and Partners and
economic development body Menter Preseli will oversee the volunteers
using 21st century knowledge.
Inner circle
The puzzle centres on how the builders of Stonehenge created the
inner circle of bluestones which originate from north Pembrokeshire.
From April the Millennium Stone will be moved over land and water
using methods that would have been available in the Stone Age.
The modern day volunteers will use ropes, sleds and runners, while
the trip across water will be made using replica Stone Age boats that
have already been built.
The route the stone will take begins in the Preseli Mountains then
down to the Cleddau Estuary to the Bristol Channel at Milford Haven.
The sea journey will end at Bristol.
Marathon trek
From there, the stone will travel along the route of the River Avon
to Dolemeads and then along the Kennet and Avon Canal before a final
overland stage to Stonehenge.
It is anticipated the stone will reach the ancient site by September.
The £100,000 Millennium Stone project has been funded by the Heritage
Lottery Fund as part of the Millennium Festival.
Menter Preseli put the idea forward under the European Union Leader
II programme and the scheme is linked in with the Celtic Voyage 2000,
also taking place in Pembrokeshire.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 390 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 21, 2000 (19:50) * 14 lines
Millennium project to move bluestone from Wales to Stonehenge
continued...
The ambitious Millennium project to transport a Pembrokeshire
bluestone from the Preseli Hills to Stonehenge has hit further
problems.
The three-tonne stone is now lying off the Pembrokeshire coast near
Dale after sinking over the weekend.
It has been abandoned by volunteer rowers because of strong winds.
go to
http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/wales/newsid%5F794000/794299.stm
for story and pix
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 391 of 1283: anne hale (ommin) * Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (00:54) * 1 lines
Marcia I am afraid I do not have any photographs but I am sure somewhere in Israel there are some.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 392 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (01:34) * 1 lines
I will do a Google search for it. Thanks! I am instructing a new seismologist on logging in......Yay!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 393 of 1283: MarkG (MarkG) * Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (06:23) * 3 lines
Of course, as explained in #384 above, the bluestone is now lost underwater after a fraught journey in which volunteers gave up on wearing "authentic" animal skins as it was too cold, insisted on wearing "unauthentic" protective gloves as the stone and rope surfaces were too rough, and then many pulled out through boredom.
Meanwhile the real Stonehenge was at last re-opened to the public for the Solstice, and 6,000 turned up to see in the dawn. The Times carries a humorous report on the lunatic fringe.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 394 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (13:52) * 3 lines
Thanks, Mark......have to hunt on The Times website to see if they have the article available. I shudder when I think of the trash heap of humanity which showed up the time we misguessed the solstice.
Amazing how easy it is to pull out of a difficult project when the "religious" or whatever it was motivation is missing!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 395 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (14:30) * 75 lines
2000-06-22
EGYPT: TOMBS CAST FRESH LIGHT ON EGYPT PYRAMID BUILDERS
By Reim Bashir
GIZA, EGYPT, June 22 (Reuters)
- Restoration of tombs at
the pyramids of Giza is casting fresh light on the builders of
the towering monuments, an Egyptian archaeologist said on Thursday.
Zahi Hawass, director of the Giza plateau where the pyramids
are located, told Reuters work on tombs of workers and their
supervisors, found by Egyptian archaeologists 10 years ago,
had revealed two cemeteries designed as mini-replicas of the
complex around the pyramids.
"This discovery proves that the builders of the pyramids of
Giza were Egyptians and that they were not slaves as some
archaeologists have claimed," Hawass declared.
"They prepared the tombs just like they did for the pyramids
complex, with the funerary temple to the east of the pyramids
and a causeway leading from it to an offering basin at the
foot of the causeway," he said.
"They prepared these tombs to last forever just like they
would do for the queens and kings. Slaves would not do that."
The tombs, located to the south of the Sphinx at the eastern
foot of the three great pyramids, were built at the end of the
4th Dynasty in the reign of the pharaoh Khufu (Cheops).
The upper-level tombs were built of solid limestone for
technicians, craftsmen and artisans, along with their families.
The lower-level tombs, made of less durable mudbrick and
rock such as granite and basalt left over from pyramid
construction, were built for the workmen who moved the huge
stone blocks used for the great pyramids 4,600 years ago.
Sometimes workers were buried with the supervisors in the upper-level tombs.
Archaeologists have found curses inscribed in the tomb of a
man named Pety and his wife, warning unwanted visitors that
crocodiles would eat them if they entered the tomb.
ANCIENT MEDICAL TREATMENT
Hawass said that among the skeletons found at the site, 12
had broken arms, with wooden boards placed on them as
splints. One was of a man with an amputated leg who lived
for 14 years after completion of the pyramid. The skull of a
man who survived for two years after that date showed signs of brain surgery.
"These discoveries prove to us that medical treatment took
place at the time and workers received good care," Hawass said.
Workers were five to six feet (1.53 to 1.83 metres) tall and did
not live past 35 years of age. Bilharzia, a disease still prevalent
in Egypt that is caused by parasitic worms and transmitted from
water-snails, was the commonest cause of death.
Archaeological evidence showed the workers wore clothes very
similar to the traditional garb of Egyptian farm workers.
"Men used to dress in galabiyas, or flowing robes, tied around
the waist and held sticks in their hands just as peasant workers
dress today," Hawass said.
He said the cemeteries and settlements indicated that the
workforce that constructed the pyramids was smaller than the
100,000 workers estimated by some researchers.
"Around 20,000 workers helped build the Giza pyramids based
on the size of the settlements we discovered," Hawass argued.
Near one causeway, archaeologists found an unfinished
double statue of a man and a woman with the man's right
foot placed in front of the left, reversing the normal pattern.
"In ancient Egyptian times, statues were built with the man's
left foot placed in front of the right symbolising him leaving
home to go to work, while the woman's two feet were placed
side by side symbolising her place in the home.
"This discovery shows that this statue was constructed by an
unprofessional craftsman and had a flaw, which explains why
it was placed in the workers' tombs," Hawass said.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 396 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (20:00) * 1 lines
I'm not surprised that the current observation is that the Pyramids weren't consctructed by slaves. In one of my history classes I remember the teacher saying that Egypt was not a slave society, as the later classical cultures of the Greeks and the Romans would be.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 397 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (20:30) * 1 lines
This is true. Motivation is important (so is staying alive)... Never did think that sort of construct could have been accomplished with slaves.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 398 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jun 25, 2000 (20:18) * 55 lines
Ancient gold treasure found
By Ramdutt Tripathi in Lucknow
Indian archaeologists say that gold treasure found
early this month in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh
could be highly significant.
The treasure belongs to the Indus Valley civilisation
and may be about 5,000 years old.
A farmer in the village of Mandi in Muzaffarnagar
district found the treasure while levelling his field.
Archaeologists are now planning a proper excavation
of the site, in the hope of finding more about the lost
civilisation of Harappa and Mohenjo-daro.
Accidental discovery
The treasure was in some containers found buried in
the field.
It is believed that a part of the treasure was removed
by the land owners and other villagers.
Later, the authorities managed to recover about 10kg
of the jewellery.
A joint team of the state's Department of Archaeology
(DoA) and the federal Archaeological Survey of India
inspected the materials.
Precious jewellery
DoA Director Rakesh Tewari said the jewellery found
from the site comprises mainly beads made of gold,
banded agate, onyx and other semi-precious stones.
Two copper containers, one circular in shape and the
other rectangular, were also found.
Mr Tewari says that this material is comparable to the
jewellery found from the Harappan phase of Lothal and
Mohenjo-daro.
There are several sites related to the Indus Valley
civilisation in Pakistan and India, but Mr Tewari says
this is the first time that such a huge quantity of gold
jewellery has been recovered .
Archaeological significance
This also means that the area of the Indus civilisation
is much larger than previously presumed.
In his report to the government, Mr Tewari has
emphasised that the new site is of great
archaeological significance.
He has recommended further investigation of the
Mandi village site.
The report also says that the residents of Mandi village
are curious about the gold and may try to dig the site
up again.
The district administration has deployed the police
force to protect the site.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_797000/797151.stm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 399 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jun 26, 2000 (18:00) * 85 lines
In the Guatemalan jungle, a Brigham Young University
professor has unearthed one of the most significant
pieces of Mayan culture ever discovered -- a rock
panel scrawled with hieroglyphics about a coldhearted
warrior who ruled a city.
"It's easily one of the biggest panels ever found of this sort,"
said BYU anthropology professor Stephen Houston. "It probably
is the champion panel."
The professor and other archaeologists discovered the slab
April 15 while digging at a Mayan excavation site once called
Piedras Negas in the northwest part of Guatemala. The
limestone slate is believed to be more than 1,200 years old and
was originally placed at the top of a pyramid that was the burial
site of the city's ruler, King Itsam K'anahk, who reigned from 639
to 686, more than 800 years before Columbus sailed to
America.
The dig, which started in 1997, is run and funded in part by
BYU, the Guatemalan university Universidad del Valle, and the
National Geographic Society.
The stone tablet is 7 feet by 5 feet, about a foot thick and
weighs so much -- 3,500 pounds -- that it had to be airlifted out
by helicopter. It is now on display at the national museum in
Guatemala City.
The panel was found at the base of one of two pyramids next
to the acropolis, the city's palace, and has more than 100
hieroglyphics. The carved writings surround a scene in which
horrified captives are brought before the king.
"You can see them moaning and screaming, and they're kind
of clutching themselves in terror," said Houston, who helped
decipher Mayan hieroglyphics at Yale University before moving
to BYU in 1994. "In contrast, the king and his two head warriors
are shown with an utter lack of emotion."
In other words, Houston said, don't mess with those three.
Houston described the Mayans of that time as "brutally
warlike." After all, they would sacrifice humans by chucking them
down the steep 100-foot pyramid stairs.
But they were "paradoxical," he said. "You have this brutally
warlike people, but you have this exquisite art style. They would
be sniffing bouquets of flowers but think nothing of throwing
captives down bloody pyramid steps. This is what makes them
so alluring and strange."
The panel, which most likely was commissioned by the king's
son, was sculpted to be a central symbol for the city and the
king's burial at the bottom of the pyramid, Houston explained.
"This tomb marked by this panel would have been the most
striking feature in the royal palace," he said. "It's encapsulating
his life as a warrior. He seems to be very proud of the misery he
is causing to his enemies."
George Stuart, an expert in Mayan culture in North Carolina
and former vice president of research and exploration for the
National Geographic Society, agrees the find is important.
"It's really rare to find them in good shape, and they were lucky
this time," he said. "This seems to be one of the biggest ones
and one of the more interesting because of the inscription on it.
It's nice to find a record of someone's reign."
The slab apparently toppled down the pyramid after a warring
kingdom called Yaxchian invaded the city sometime in the year
800. While smashing the palace, the enemy must have struck
the panel down.
"It slid down from the top of the pyramid on what must have
been a wild toboggan run to the base," Houston said. "We were
fortunate because it had fallen face down. If it had fallen face up,
all of the hieroglyphics would have eroded."
Houston and staff archaeologist Ernesto Arrendondo
discovered the slab buried only 10 to 15 inches below dirt and
loose stone.
"I stuck my hand in to feel the hieroglyphics, and I knew we
had something amazing," Houston said.
In three years, Houston and Guatemalan archaeologists have
unearthed hundreds of ceramics, jewelry, tools made of bone,
and figurines from the site, which is surrounded by rain forest
and is a four hour hike and mule ride to the nearest town. And
because of the nearly constant rain the rest of the year, they can
excavate only from March through May.
"Otherwise, it's like digging fudge," Houston said.
Last season, there were 25 archaeologists and 85 workers at
the site, but they might not have the funding to continue next
year.
"This site has one of the richest and most beautiful collections
of Mayan culture," Houston said. "This panel is the cap of the
dig. This is what we had hoped to find. This is why I do this. It's
an experience not a lot of people have."
http://www.sltrib.com/2000/Jun/06242000/utah/61570.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 400 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jun 28, 2000 (15:47) * 88 lines
Leonardo's second sitting for
Last Supper
FROM RICHARD OWEN IN ROME
A HITHERTO unknown second version of The Last
Supper which Italian art experts believe Leonardo
da Vinci painted two years after his masterpiece
has come to light in a parish church near Milan.
The fresco, to be unveiled today so that
international art experts may examine it, includes a
self-portrait which suggests that the Renaissance
master had a squint.
After the fresco was painted in the 15th century in
the apse of the Church of San Rocco at Inzago, a
small town northeast of Milan, it was partly
plastered over. Those sections of the painting
which remained visible were later obscured by an
"undistinguished" 18th century altarpiece.
Father Davide Mazzucchelli, the parish priest, said
that he had been struck by the "sheer beauty" of
the head of Christ in the fresco after he took over
the parish ten years ago. He called in Massimo
Peron, a restorer from Varese, who in 1998 began
cleaning and repairing the painting, which has
been dated to 1499.
Experts from the office of the Superintendent of
Arts in Milan believe that it is by Leonardo's
workshop, with "key contributions", including the
heads of Christ and the apostles, by the master
himself.
Martin Kemp, Professor of the History of Art at
Oxford University and a leading authority on
Leonardo said that in 1499, the year Milan was
invaded by the French, Leonardo was "never in
one place for long", and had returned to Florence
by the next year.
Professor Kemp said he could not give an opinion
without seeing the fresco, but it was "plausible"
that Leonardo had allowed his workshop to
complete the design.
In a trick of perspective which suggests a painter
of high calibre, the fresco, measuring about 19
square yards, is painted on a curved wall, although
the table appears to be a perfect rectangle.
The "supper" in the painting includes potatoes,
confirming a date after 1493, when potatoes were
introduced to Europe from newly discovered
America. There are also two-pronged forks, a
sophistication known to have been introduced by
the court of Duke Ludovico Sforza, the Duke of
Milan. Some restorers are convinced an Apostle
on the far left of the painting is a self-portrait of
Leonardo with long, silver hair and a pronounced
squint.
"The left eye is looking at Christ but the right one
looks straight out at us" Father Mazzucchelli said.
"This may finally explain why Leonardo painted the
world the way he did". Another clue is that none of
the figures has a halo, one of Leonardo's
"signatures".
Leonardo (1452-1519), who began his career in
Florence, entered the service of the Duke of Milan
in 1482, deploying his genius not only as a painter
and sculptor but also as architect, military and
hydraulic engineer, town planner, and organiser of
sumptuous court entertainments. In his 18 years in
Milan he was thought to have produced only six
paintings, including The Last Supper.
Last year it was unveiled after a controversial
20-year restoration, with critics noting that
restorers had "filled in gaps" and only 20 per cent
of the work could be said to be "original". Father
Mazzucchelli said experts had used computer
imaging and infrared techniques to compare the
heads in the Inzago fresco with those in Milan, and
had concluded they were "by the same hand".
more....http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/06/24/timfnffnf01002.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 401 of 1283: _cosmo_ (aa9il) * Thu, Jun 29, 2000 (20:36) * 26 lines
A little modern archeology pondering....
Today I wandered to one of the big buildings in downtown Chicago
for lunch - was reading Ley Hunter and wondered if there were
any sacred alignments in the big cities - stuff that was done
on purpose that was subliminally integrated into the cityscape.
If you look at the big city - you have plenty of modern 'ley'
lines - the roads and other paths that lead in from the country.
For those who are of the cult of the dollar, there are some
temples were the shaman, dressed in ceremonial garb (the suit...),
wave their arms, chant, and jump about with the hope that their
divinations will turn a profit... But, I digress....
What I was looking for was the modern ley with links to a sacred
path - very sublime but still focusing power or guiding to a
sacred site. A point where during the Solstice or Equinox, the
stars and planets would align and would transform the cold and
impersonal concrete into something mysterious and part of the
great Earth grid - even for a brief moment.
Lunch was over and I wandered back through the crowded streets
which lined up with more than just the normal....
de Mike
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 402 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jun 29, 2000 (21:46) * 1 lines
The chase for the Almighty Dollar has replaced the hunt for the White Stag, Holy Grail, and the interface between this and the Otherworld. Any river is a sacred line of power. E lines radiate across the entire earth for those who believe and can sense them. In the beginning of this topic I placed maps you might wish to check, and if you are truly interested (Stephen has gone missing....) I will hunt more on this subject for you. There are fascinating first person accounts early in this topic, as well, by those who have lived near and trod the ley lines in Southern England. Check Geo 27 for discussions and maps
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 403 of 1283: MarkG (MarkG) * Fri, Jun 30, 2000 (03:34) * 1 lines
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 404 of 1283: MarkG (MarkG) * Fri, Jun 30, 2000 (03:37) * 1 lines
I saw the restored Last Supper in Milan last year, and even if it isn't mostly original any more, it's still wonderful. Fascinating news about the "workshop"
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 405 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jun 30, 2000 (14:14) * 1 lines
There has been a lot of discussion about that restoration of Last Supper. I am delighted to hear you think it is still wonderful. Nothing like getting the grime off of the paintings we thought we knew...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 406 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jul 2, 2000 (02:01) * 51 lines
The Stonehenge Haul Saga continues.....
Ancient stone's modern hitch
BY SIMON DE BRUXELLES
VOLUNTEERS using prehistoric techniques to
take a three-tonne rock from west Wales to
Stonehenge yesterday received a helping hand
from a crane, a salvage tug and a team of divers
from the Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service.
The stone from the Preseli mountains plunged into
the sea two weeks ago while being carried on a
platform between two leather-hulled Stone Age
boats.
However, yesterday divers from the RMAS's tug
Moorfowl placed a harness around the stone 17
metres down on the seabed and a crane winched
it to the surface. The tug then sailed to Gelliswick
Bay where the stone was taken ashore. It will be
hoisted back on to the original vessel and resume
its 240-mile journey at the weekend.
The volunteers involved in the project had been
awarded £100,000 by the Heritage Lottery Fund to
follow in the footsteps of the prehistoric
monument's builders.
Phil Bowen, who helped to organise the operation,
said: "I am absolutely delighted. I was worried we
would never see the stone again."
The stone will be rowed along the coast towards
Bristol and then transferred to a replica neolithic
barge for a short journey up the River Avon to Bath.
The barge will then drift along the Kennet and Avon
Canal as far as Honey Street near Devizes. The
final stage will see it dragged overland 26 miles to
the Stonehenge site.
The Millennium Stone project, organised by Menter
Preseli, the rural development organisation, has
been plagued with mishap and delay since it
began in March.
Dillwyn Miles, the Welsh historian, said: "They have
used modern methods to help the stone on its way
and that totally invalidates what they claim to be
doing."
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 407 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jul 2, 2000 (17:55) * 23 lines
The First Pen and Ink?
Famed Lindisfarne Gospels
Yield Hidden Sketches
By Reagan Duplisea
What may be the oldest metal-point sketches — drawings in an
early version of pen and ink — have been discovered hidden
under the texts and elaborate embellishments of the famous
Lindisfarne Gospels manuscripts of Britain.
Sixty previously undetected drawings were found under the
Latin manuscript at the British Library by curator Michelle
Brown. They were spotted through a microscope and appear
to be made by a metal-tipped pen that left imprints on the
calfskin pages.
The ancient sketches appear to be practice drawings that were made on the back of each page.
The manuscript was mostly written about A.D. 698 by the monk Eadfrith on the Holy Island of
Lindisfarne off the coast of Northumberland. The gospels were then taken to Durham Cathedral
for safekeeping from Viking raiders. They now make their home in the London museum.
Before this discovery, the oldest metal-point drawings were from the twelfth century. The
manuscript is one of Britain's greatest treasures.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 408 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jul 2, 2000 (18:49) * 45 lines
Archaeologist uncovers
6th century crozier in
Offaly
Archaeologists working in a Co Offaly bog have
discovered a wooden crozier which may be the earliest
of its kind recovered in Ireland, dating from the 6th
century AD.
The find was made by Ms Ellen O' Carroll of
Archaeological Development Services, working for
Bord na Móna in advance of its peat harvesting
programme at Leamanaghan.
The crozier, which is being examined by experts in
Dublin, has been preliminarily identified as
cherrywood. It was found stuck vertically in the peat
beside an ancient track through the bog.
Ms O' Carroll said the crozier was carved longitudinally
from a stem or branch and then polished. Although
broken at several points along its length, it can be fitted
together.
"When it is fitted it would appear to be 1.25 metres in
length and 25 mm in diameter. It would probably have
been held along the shaft as its height would inhibit
holding it at the crook," she said.
"What is really interesting about the crozier is that the
crook itself has a Greek cross located in a circle
incised into the wood and the tip of the shaft is stepped
and pointed.
"There may have been a metal point originally
positioned on the end but we cannot be sure of that.
But we do believe that this is probably the earliest
dated in Ireland so far." She explained the crozier was
unearthed beside a wooden togher, or pathway, which
had been dated by dendrochronology to AD 596.
More http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2000/0622/hom5.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 409 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jul 4, 2000 (17:47) * 21 lines
First tower of London built by the Romans
EVIDENCE that a Roman "tower block" stood in
the City of London 1,700 years ago has been
unearthed by archaeologists.
Excavations have revealed the remains of a
massive high-status domestic building on a
sprawling site near the present Leadenhall Market.
The dimensions suggest that the house, up to 131ft
wide, could have had four or five floors plus a tower
reaching 82ft above the ground.
At a time when Roman London was less than safe,
a wealthy family could have found refuge there. The
discovery has been linked to a 4th-century
aristocratic woman whose elaborate sarcophagus
was found a year ago in a nearby cemetery at
Spitalfields.
More... http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/07/01/timnnfnnf01003.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 410 of 1283: MarkG (MarkG) * Wed, Jul 5, 2000 (04:00) * 3 lines
Hard to see how site dimensions found in a dig can suggest an 82ft tower.
I hope the archaeologists aren't getting a little too speculative. I saw the above sarcophagus as my company for a while owned the site in Spitalfields. Also found in one of the cemeteries on the site (which had repeatedly been used as a cemetery age after age) was a 15th century syphilitic bone, refuting the accepted wisdom that syphilis was brought back to Europe from the Americas.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 411 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jul 5, 2000 (12:29) * 2 lines
Thanks for your first hand report. How did they ever keep you out of the dig? One of the most poignant memories of London was a dig on the Bank of Westminster site which bore the sign "volunteers wanted". I had to be dragged away protesting before I plunged into the very deep hole they has excavated. It still haunts me.
I always wondered how the syphilis got to the Americas before the Europeans. Thanks for that update, too. Between BJD lurking and digs outside your business, it must make for a busy day!!!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 412 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jul 6, 2000 (23:55) * 47 lines
DISCOVERING ARCHAEOLOGY
Newsletter for July 5, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- CANADA'S ICEMAN REVISITED
Research Begins on Human Remains Found in a Glacier
http://www.DISCOVERINGARCHAEOLOGY.COM/articles/070300-iceman.shtml
- THE FIRST PEN AND INK?
Famed Lindisfarne Gospels Yield Hidden Sketches
http://www.DISCOVERINGARCHAEOLOGY.COM/articles/063000-pen.shtml
- EGYPTIAN TREASURES IN EUROPE (CD-ROM)
Reviewed by Bob Partridge
http://www.egyptrevealed.com/062800-statues.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- The Titanic...Finders Keepers?
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47686-2000Jul4.html
- American Archaeology Professor Detained in Greece
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-eur/2000/jul/02/070200981.html
- Rising Water and Turkish Treasures
http://www.msnbc.com/news/427265.asp
- They Got the Wrong Jesse James
http://www.foxnews.com/science/063000/jessejames.sml
- Desert Cave Pictographs May Not Be Real
http://www.foxnews.com/science/063000/egypt_drawings.sml
- Season of Discovery
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/000710/lost.htm
-----
The Discovering Archaeology Newsletter finds the week's most
interesting archaeological stories and presents them to you in a
simple, easy to read format on the web. Read these and other
interesting features, including Readers Polls, Book Reviews,
Archaeological Event Calendars and much more at:
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 413 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Tue, Jul 11, 2000 (20:38) * 8 lines
On the subject of the Biblical Flood. There is a new theory concerning it. The authors of this theory are William B.F. Ryan and Walter C. Pitman, two senior geophysicists at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. They hypothosize that the deluge might have occurred in the area of the Black Sea. Using sound waves and coring devices to probe the sea floor, they found that 7600 years ago, the Black Sea was a freshwater lake lying hundreds of feet below the level of the world's rising oceans. When the Mediterranean spilled into the Sea of Marmara causing it to finally burst through the narrow Bosphorus, causing 10 cubic miles of seawater a day to pour into the Black Sea, which was then 500 feet lower. The farms and villages around the shore of the Black Sea were swept away. The sea would have pushed inland for up to a mile each day, causing the inhabitants to flee. Perhaps survivors dispersed across Europe and Asia Minor, carrying their languages, their genes, and their memory of the catastrop
e with them?
Last summer Robert Ballard found the remnants of a beach near the sea's south shore under 500 feet of water. In the sediments were lakeshore rocks and shells; there were freshwater shells of an age of 7,800 years and saltwater shells of 7,300 years old. Indicating freshwater being inundated by saltwater. Ballard is planning to search for evidence of human settlements along the drown shore.
Here is a link to read more about Robert Ballard's expedition:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/events/releases/pr991117.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 414 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Jul 11, 2000 (21:52) * 1 lines
Thanks for that, Cheryl. I had heard he was planning this expedition but did not know when or for whom. I am delighted that National Geographic is his sponsor.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 415 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jul 12, 2000 (22:49) * 42 lines
Scientific American Discovering Archaeology Weekly
DISCOVERING ARCHAEOLOGY
Newsletter for July 12, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- INTRODUCING KIDS TO THE PAST
A Project Takes Archaeology to School and Puts Youngsters in the Field
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/0900toc/9randn11-past.shtml
- Pinning the Worth of an Ancient Theft
About 3200 years ago, give or take a few hundred years, the merchant
Wenamun had a pretty bad trip to Phoenicia.
http://www.egyptrevealed.com/051200-wenamun.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- The Hunt for Ghengis Khan's Tomb
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000706/hi_genghis.html
- Chefren's Pyramid Reopens
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000706/sc/egypt_pyramid_dc_3.html
- Restoring Archimedes' Manuscript
http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2000/07/11/archimedes000711
- Pacific Island Colonists Via Taiwan
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000630/aw_pacific.html
- Glyphs Tell of Mayan Horror
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000630/aw_maya.html
- Pack Rats as Preservers
http://dallasnews.com/texas_southwest/108650_packrats_09tex.html
- The Search for Sunken Lands, Gods, and Civilizations
http://www.franckgoddio.org/english/projects/backtolight/default.asp
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 416 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jul 13, 2000 (01:24) * 43 lines
Tuesday July 11 10:00 AM ET
Scientists Find Archimedes' Words
ROCHESTER, N.Y. (AP) - Scientists at Rochester Institute of
Technology are restoring a 10th century manuscript - the only known
copy in the original Greek of some of the writings of mathematician
Archimedes.
The text, which scholars believe was copied in the 10th century by a
scribe from Archimedes' original scrolls, was erased 200 years
later by a monk who reused the parchment for a prayer book. It was
purchased anonymously at a 1998 auction for $2 million.
Using digital cameras and processing techniques as well as
ultraviolet and infrared filters, the scientists captured images of the
original words and drawings that were washed away and then
covered with a new text.
``There is always a residual, traces of what was there,'' said Robert
Johnston, an archaeologist and RIT professor emeritus. ``It's
amazing what can come out. Soon, nothing will be secret or
hidden.''
Archimedes lived from about 287-212 B.C. The manuscript is the
only copy in the original Greek of Archimedes' theory of flotation of
bodies, which holds that the buoyant force on an object immersed in
a fluid is equal to the weight of the fluid displaced.
The text and diagrams also detail his mathematical treatises and
mechanical theorems and contain the roots of modern calculus and
gravitational theory.
The team is working on five pages from the text as part of a
competition that will determine who will analyze the entire
manuscript, which contains more than 170 pages.
``This book is Archimedes' brain in a book,'' said William Noel,
curator of the Walters Arts Gallery in Baltimore, where the
manuscript is kept. ``What we need to do is X-ray that brain.''
RIT's scientists plan to finish their work by September. The gallery
expects to make a selection by the end of the year.
The text is on vellum, a writing surface made from animal skin. It
was cleaned off in the 12th century and the valuable parchment was
reused in a Greek prayer book.
The book disappeared from the Convent of the Holy Sepulchre in
Constantinople in the 1920s. It resurfaced in the possession of a
French family in the 1930s and was sold by the family in 1998.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 417 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jul 14, 2000 (21:29) * 3 lines
The latest assault on Stonehenge's environment:
http://www.britarch.ac.uk/cba/stone1.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 418 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Jul 17, 2000 (14:48) * 1 lines
There's a forensic archeo programme on TV soon this evening looking at a possible ancient murder at Stonehenge. I'll see if I can find anything on it on the net later.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 419 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Mon, Jul 17, 2000 (15:08) * 1 lines
Have read about it on the net and posted about it above - a sacrifice as they all were back then...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 420 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jul 27, 2000 (18:30) * 56 lines
DISCOVERING ARCHAEOLOGY
Newsletter for July 26, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- RESTORING THE MAP OF ANCIENT ROME
Scientists and Computers are Reassembling a Huge Depiction
of the Old City
http://www.DISCOVERINGARCHAEOLOGY.COM/articles/072600-rome.shtml
- Face to Face with Pharaoh
Ever since the first tourists and travelers visited Egypt, one aspect
of the ancient culture has been of particular fascination - the
preserved bodies of the ancient dead.
http://www.egyptrevealed.com/071500-mightypharaoh.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- Dateline... Mesa Verde
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/mesaverdefire000722.html
- The Monkey Lives
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/scopestrial000723.html
- Holy Land Rest Stop
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/cu-amp072400.html
- An African-American Business in the Old West
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2000/jul/23/510540502.html
- Titanic Salvagers Race against Time
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000724/hi_titanic.html
- Let the Games Begin
http://www.ngnews.com/news/2000/07/07212000/firstfans_2862.asp
- Studying Things Passed
http://www.academicpress.com/inscight/07212000/graphb.htm
- The Emperor's Private Battleground
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000725/aw_hi_colosseum.html
- The Monk's Remains and Syphilis
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/heritage_health-diseases-syphilis-uk_916540.html
-----
The Discovering Archaeology Newsletter finds the week's most
interesting archaeological stories and presents them to you in a
simple, easy to read format on the web. Read these and other
interesting features, including Readers Polls, Book Reviews,
Archaeological Event Calendars and much more at:
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 421 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 3, 2000 (01:54) * 47 lines
Scientific American Discovering Archaeology Weekly
DISCOVERING ARCHAEOLOGY
Newsletter for August 02, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- WHEN THE RAINS STOPPED
Constant Shifts in Climate Molded Much of Human History
http://discoveringarchaeology.com/0900toc/9focus1-rains.shtml
- Archaeology Live!
It's midnight in the middle of the eastern Sahara Desert. Cairo lies
some 230 miles to the northeast — and in-between is nothing but four
hours of sand.
http://www.egyptrevealed.com/073100-archlive.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- Chinese Toilet
http://www.foxnews.com/science/072600/sky_toilet.sml
- Another Civilization's Remains Discovered in Iran
http://sg.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/entertainment/afp/article.html?s=singapore/headlines/000801/entertainment/afp/3_000-year-old_remains_discovered_near_Tehran.html
- Finland's Undersea Museum
http://www.latimes.com/news/asection/20000728/t000070685.html
- Raising the Hunley
http://www.ngnews.com/news/2000/07/07262000/hunley_2869.asp
- Civil War Blockade Runner Excavated
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000729/us/civil_war_ship_1.html
- The Roman Open Aire Museum
http://www.villa-rustica.de/indexe.html
- Calculate like an Egyptian
http://www.bigchalk.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WOPortal.woa/wa/HWCDA/file?fileid=161183&flt=CAB
-----
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 422 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 10, 2000 (01:45) * 44 lines
Scientific American Discovering Archaeology Weekly
DISCOVERING ARCHAEOLOGY
Newsletter for August 09, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- THE EARLIEST MUMMIES
Were Mothers in the Andes Trying to Preserve Lost Children?
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/articles/080400-mummies.shtml
- STONE FOR THE EMPERORS
Purple Porphyry Carved from Egypt Surrounded Roman Royalty
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/0900toc/9feature1-emperors.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- The National Underwater and Marine Agency
http://www.numa.net/
- The Remains of the Titanic
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20000807/2525421s.htm
- The First Americans
http://www.sciam.com/2000/0900issue/0900nemecek.html#further
- China's Other Great Wall
http://www.latimes.com/news/asection/20000804/t000073045.html
- Tut's Butt
http://www.ngnews.com/news/2000/08/08032000/0175-0564-britain-tutankhamen.asp
- Creationists Lose in Kansas
http://www.academicpress.com/inscight/08022000/grapha.htm
- The Oracle at Delphi
http://www.sltrib.com/08032000/thursday/8890.htm
- Ishi Goes Home
http://www7.mercurycenter.com/premium/local/docs/ishi06.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 423 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Aug 11, 2000 (20:41) * 37 lines
Shall we speak of the glamour of Archaology? Stephen has spent his summer working on this project. Nothing like excavating Thames muck. It is hard labour as well.
The Archaeology of the Eton Rowing Lake
SUMMER EXCAVATION
26th June to 18th August 2000
A large area on the north bank of the river Thames is being excavated in a series of
summer seasons in advance of the construction of the Rowing Lake. The site, which is
situated in open countryside next to the village of Dorney in South Buckinghamshire, is
unique because of the preservation of a substantial channel of the prehistoric river
Thames, within which waterlogged wooden structures have been located. The
floodplain alongside contains a sequence of Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze Age in situ
occupation horizons with flint knapping scatters, hearths and other artefact spreads
sealed within the alluvium. On the gravel terraces the cropmarks indicate probably the
best surviving Bronze Age landscape in the Middle Thames valley, with settlement, field
systems and burials in barrows, flat graves and cremation urns. An enclosed Roman
farmstead overlies Bronze Age settlement alongside the former course of the Thames.
Results from the work in 1995, 1996 and 1997 exceeded expectations. Six Bronze
Age and Iron Age waterlogged timber bridges were found, while a pair of Neolithic
middens came to light in a channel. On the floodplain Neolithic knapping areas have
been revealed, while on dry ground Bronze Age barrows and waterholes and an Iron
Age and Roman farmstead have been excavated.
The project is headed by Tim Allen from the Oxford Archaeological Unit. The
professional team invites assistance from students from British universities, local
archaeological societies, and other interested groups and individuals. A wide variety of
experience of archaeological fieldwork and finds is available working with one of the
foremost professional Units in the country. The 2000 season will examine the extensive
Bronze Age enclosure system and settlement.
The site lies west of London close to Windsor Castle, and is easily accessible by rail
from London Paddington and by road from the M4, A4 or M40, while Heathrow
Airport is also nearby. There are no on-site facilities, but details of local campsites are
available. Work will be Monday to Friday, with the weekends off; the standard working
day will be from 8 am to 4.30 p.m.
http://www.oau-oxford.com/eton.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 424 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Aug 11, 2000 (20:43) * 15 lines
The Eton Rowing Lake
The Oldest Bridge across the River Thames
The oldest bridge on the River Thames was discovered last summer in excavations at the Eton rowing lake at
Dorney in south Buckinghamshire. In fact, the possible remains of two bridges were discovered, one Bronze Age,
one Iron Age. The earlier consisted of two lines of timbers on opposing banks of the channel - the surviving
timbers did not go right way across. There were unfortunately too few rings for tree-ring dating, but two timbers
have been radiocarbon dated by the British Museum, one to 1100 ± 50 bc, the other to 1200 ± 40 bc which
between them calibrate to between 1300 and 1400 BC. Alongside were two parallel lines of timbers forming the
later structure, this time running right across the channel, a distance of approximately 35 metres. Again, samples
from two of the timbers were sent to the British Museum and radiocarbon dated at respectively 500 ±50 bc and
470 ± 50 bc. However, as these dates fall into the notorious radiocarbon ‘wiggle’ in the Iron Age, they can only be calibrated loosely to between 800 and 400 BC.
http://www.archaeology.co.uk/hilites/eton.htm
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 425 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Aug 11, 2000 (20:55) * 7 lines
Photos and interesting commentary by the head of the dig:
http://wtin.simplenet.com/lake.html
Best writeup of the history and findings so far (1998)
http://www.wargrave.net/history/jun98.html
(Would love to see a picture of the guy digging the huge holes and excavating all those "very old snail shells"...)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 426 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Aug 16, 2000 (23:57) * 33 lines
Scientific American Discovering Archaeology Weekly
DISCOVERING ARCHAEOLOGY
Newsletter for August 16, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- THE EARLIEST MUMMIES
HIDDEN HISTORY OF CENTRAL PARK
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/articles/081500-central.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- Ice age planetarium
http://www.numa.net/
- Dateline... Israel
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/hominid_000811.html
- Ancient Sarcophagus Discovered in Iran
http://www.sciam.com/2000/0900issue/0900nemecek.html#further
- Minoan Tupperware
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/minoanpots000809.html
- Archaeologist Buries Findings:
http://detnews.com/2000/metro/0008/10/d09-103210.htm
- China to Spend $12 million to Save Relics
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000812/wl/china_three_gorges_1.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 427 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (04:29) * 1 lines
A medieval wall painting that was unknown has been discovered in a church near me - at Checkendon near Henley, Oxfordshire. It was found when they removed the old organ. Apparently the victorians stripped a lot of plaster off to get to the brickwork in the rest of the church, stripping the wall paintings at the same time (BTW they did more 'vandalism' then Henry VIII and reformation!). This fragment escaped ob,iteration because they didn't bother to strip behind where the new organ was to go. Part of the painting depicts a man on horseback outlined in red. It's being restored by English Heritage and the Churches Trust. It's supposed to be one of the most important finds of this kind for a lONG while. I haven't been able to get to see it yet as it's not on public display while the restoration takes place.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 428 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (04:45) * 5 lines
Took a trip down the length of Hadrian's Wall from Carlisle to Newcastle. Visited a couple of sites.
Go visit http://www.vindolanda.com
This is the current area of archeological excavation. Vindolanda is one of the forts along the wall. We were surprised to find how much excavation still needs to be done. If you visit the site click on visitor information and then find 'Archaeology and Excavation News' - that will take you to the digs. Look at 'earlier 2000' and you will see the early british huts that have been discovered. The excavation of these is continuing as they find more of them. I saw one entire one which had just been unearthed and two guys were still working on on a further one. The bath house which is the current dig is not open to the public yet, but we could see it clearly.
On our trip up to Scotland we visited the Temple of Mithras along the wall. It was amazingly preserved and surprisingly small. The fort by which it stood is no more than a big grass mound now and has not been excavated. However, the temple has the three altar pillars intact. One of these has carving which goes right through the stone and is amazingly fine.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 429 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (14:15) * 1 lines
Maggie, thanks for theses goodies. I have a HUGE problem with the Victorian treatment of antiquities. One of the biggest abuses was their fondness for planting copses of trees atop long barrows for "aesthetics". It has made a mess of the interiors with the roots rearranging the structures therein. If they had only stuck to constructing "Follies"
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 430 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Aug 23, 2000 (22:56) * 49 lines
Scientific American Discovering Archaeology
Newsletter for August 23, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- PRESERVING POTS
Huge Collection of Southwest Pottery Wins Grant for Conservation
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/articles/082200-pots.shtml
- ONLINE CONTEST!
Answer the question correctly and win great prizes from Egypt Revealed! Just for kids!
https://orion.he.net/%7Esaa49000/onlinecontest.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- A Cable Car At Machu Picchu
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20000818/2563775s.htm
- Research Supports Anasazi Cannibalism Theory
http://www.cortezjournal.com/1news699.htm
- Dateline... Bulgaria
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000822/wl/bulgaria_archaeology_1.html
- The Modern Saga of Spirit Cave Man
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/html98/cave17m_20000817.html
- Dateline... South America
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_842000/842442.stm
- Sweden's Ancient Crematorium/Temple
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000820/wl/sweden_temple_dc_1.html
- Searching for Buried Secrets
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_890000/890163.stm
- Drought And The Americas
http://www.ngnews.com/news/2000/08/08212000/climatetrip_2954.asp
- Archaeology on Antelope Island
http://www.sltrib.com/08202000/utah/14100.htm
-----
The Discovering Archaeology Newsletter finds the week's most
interesting archaeological stories and presents them to you in a
simple, easy to read format on the web. Read these and other
interesting features, including Readers Polls, Book Reviews,
Archaeological Event Calendars and much more at:
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 431 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (13:16) * 56 lines
This article will probably offend someone I used to know and love, but it is from The Times, So hang the cost!
RETURN OF THE NATIVE
An open stones policy at Stonehenge
Yesterday came the summer solstice and with it the return
of a time-honoured tradition to Stonehenge: it rained. Who
knows? - perhaps the sun had spotted all those would-be
druids ironing their bedsheets the day before and so
decided to join in the general festivities and get out some
linen fancy dress of its own. It made its 4.43am entrance
swathed in damp sheets of stratus which, judging from the
drizzle of accompanying rain, must have been pulled still wet
from some celestial washing machine. Not that that
mattered to the covens of witches and warlocks, wizards
and weirdos who had gathered to welcome it under
Stonehenge's triluthon lintels. They tootled their greetings on
seaweed-stem horns.
Worshippers were grateful, quite simply, to have been
permitted entrance, for yesterday was the first time in 16
years that Stonehenge has been admissible to anyone but
the man with the mower. Seven thousand or more gathered
to give gratitude to the great gods of English Heritage:
hordes of hippies and tribes of transcendentalists, scrums of
spiritualists, armies of new agers. Some were pagan, others
were simply practical: some came with their oak leaves,
others with picnic hampers; some with bongo drums, others
with umbrellas.
But then the only truly traditional thing about the entire event
was the rain - which was just as well for, in probably the
only first hand account that exists of druidical ceremonies,
Pliny describes a ritual slaughter of two white bulls which, in
this day and age, would have gone down as badly with the
EU abattoir regulators as it would with the animal rights
protesters who were very probably among the festive
groups. Certainly the only human sacrifice that appears to
have been performed, was that made by one, Bob, who
disapparelling himself of all but his bobble hat poured out
libations of Ice Dragon Cider on the grass.
Bogus it certainly is. Today's ancient orders of the druids
date back about as far as the Celtic revival of the 1970s
which - though that might seem to some readers like remote
history - is but the whisk of a dreadlock on Stonehenge's
4,000 year timescale. But still the fact that a horde of
would-be barbarians managed to mark the solstice so
jubilantly without a single arrest being made, or any damage
being done to the site, vindicates the open stones policy of
English Heritage. And although cacophonies roused by
warring styles of celebration may have broken in on the
peace preferred by some druids, at least it would have
drowned out the modern rumble of early morning traffic on
the A303.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 432 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (19:55) * 3 lines
Witches, warlocks, wizards, and wierdos -- that sounds like a show on the Discovery Channel or maybe the History Channel.
Did the man with the lawnmower show up eventually?
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 433 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (20:25) * 3 lines
Wondering that myself.
What a job! Been there and I would volunteer to mow the place just to absrob the atmosphere!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 434 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (20:35) * 1 lines
I can imagine you with putting the finishing touches on the job by neatly trimming around the stones with garden shears.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 435 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (21:45) * 1 lines
There you go! All neat and tidy. You do not think I would pollute such sacred space with a weed whacker...*gasp* Then maybe they would let me play with the archaeologists who arrive from time to time...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 436 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (22:02) * 1 lines
(I can't believe I actually posted that. It is one thing to think things. Quite another to post it...)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 437 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (06:25) * 1 lines
(yeah, well I didn't get to play with the archeologists working at Vindolanda on Hadrian's Wall - they were too busy for the likes of me.... *sigh*)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 438 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (12:45) * 1 lines
Understood... and I understand the *sigh* too. *HUGS* Maggie
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 439 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (16:28) * 4 lines
There are very few hands-on 'public' digs where a visitr can join in. At Vindolanda one can become a friend of the Vindolanda Trust and apply for a place on one of the digs. Both the guys working there when I visited were local - from their Geordie accents.
Talking of digs: here's a site to go and look at. This is an ongoing archeological project in Mali. I think the team go back each year.
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~anth/arch/mali-interactive/index.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 440 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (17:12) * 1 lines
Each spring, Archaeology Magazine and Biblical Archaeology Review pubish digs which take volunteers, inluding contact people and what it will cost you. I was jesting in my comment on Stonehenge. Somewhat poignantly, however...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 441 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Sat, Aug 26, 2000 (15:25) * 1 lines
Maggie, I'm sorry you didn't get to work with the archaeologists at Hadrian's Wall.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 442 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Aug 26, 2000 (20:08) * 1 lines
...me, too! Then I could have visited her...and...and...! *sigh*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 443 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Sun, Aug 27, 2000 (05:00) * 3 lines
Well, it nearly happened this trip - maybe we'll get it (and the money) together one year!!! I did get to stand and watch the hunky males though. First time IRL, only ever seen active digs on TV.
Time Team Live are on TV this weekend. They are working in Canterbury. I'll try and find the URL and post it (lost my links on this machine so have to start over...)
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 444 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Aug 27, 2000 (15:21) * 0 lines
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 445 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Aug 27, 2000 (15:22) * 2 lines
Oh *sigh* Now you are telling me that archaeologists are hunks, too?! I think neither of us would be safe if I were there. Perhaps digging a hole in a drained rowing lake? Screening the diggings for artifacts...or very old
land snails...I hear there are hunks there, too.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 446 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Aug 28, 2000 (04:51) * 2 lines
Well, you'd have liked the two guys working at Vindolanda .....Anyway, I had a chaparone ....
Haven't heard any more about the Eton rowing lake. Did drive past a while back though.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 447 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Aug 28, 2000 (05:09) * 1 lines
Was really fed up yesterday afternoon. The Time Team live main 1 1/2 hour broadcast was cancelled because the Benson and Hedges cricket cup final was being played - postponed because of rain from Saturday. Even my husband was annoyed (and he loves cricket...). The excitement of TT live is just that that it is live and you see things as they happen. He's just told me that for some reason the video recorder did not even record the later short Time Team report. Oh well, back to the website for info.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 448 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Mon, Aug 28, 2000 (05:42) * 122 lines
Check out http://www.channel4.com/ and click on the time team picture to get to the current reports site. Just found out from there that there is an extended programme at lunchtime today, so we'll watch that and I'll report on that later ...
Here are the reports so far from Canterbury...Chronology of the digs at the three sites opened up: Greyfriars, Blue Boy Yard, Tyler Hill
Greyfriars - Saturday 26 August, Sunday 27 August
Saturday 26 August
Trench One
Trench One is situated over the cloisters of the church.
10am
Opened up.
11am
Top of wall uncovered, possible first sighting of the Friary.
12.20
Sheets of polythene are unearthed, coverings from the 1970s Louise Millard excavations. When Millard finished her dig, she covered the walls with polythene before filling the earth back in.
Trench Two
Trench Two is situated over the chancel of the Friar’s church. The trench is divided by a wall and split into two parts: Trench 2a - south of the wall, Trench 2b - north of the wall.
10.30
Opened up.
11.30
A bone handle to a knife is found in Trench 2b, probably dated around the 15th/16th century.
12.30
A coin is found in Trench 2b, given a provisional date of the 15th century.
14.00
Two structural supports made of brick from a late 19th century, early 20th century forcing house (greenhouse) are uncovered.
Trench Three
1pm
The archaeologists begin debating where to start a third trench.
Sunday 27 August
Trench One
9.15
Extended trench by one metre so that the wall on the other side of the cloister can be uncovered.
10.15
Carved stone window mullion found
Trench Two
9.30
In Trench 2b, two pits are uncovered containing tiles, Mark Horton, the tile specialist from Tyler Hill, suggested that the tiles have been produced locally, possibly Tyler Hill and are dated circa 15th century.
10.00
Uncovered possible chancel wall.
10.15
Trench 2a, the diggers have removed, photographed and recorded the greenhouse so that they can continue digging down to medieval layer.
Trench Three
10.30
Tiles unearthed last night are identified as being identical to those from Tyler Hill and dated circa 13th century.
Blue Boy Yard- Friday 25 August,Saturday 26 August,Sunday 27 August
Friday 25 August
18.25
The mechanical digger makes its first inroads into the concrete-covered site at Blue Boy Yard. A 5 metre-square trench is to be dug on the site.
Saturday 26 August
12.00
Mechanical digger halted as first finds – of early 16th-century blue and white glazed pottery – are uncovered.
13.00
The first Roman find at Blue Boy Yard – a pottery shard.
14.30
A piece of 12th-century Tyler Hill pottery is uncovered. It is followed by possibly fifth-century Anglo-Saxon pottery shards.
16.00
A coin from the reign of King Cunoblinus (Cymbeline), who died in 42 AD, is found in the spoil heap by a metal detectorist.
Sunday 27 August
15.30
The results of soil sample tests by soil scientist Dr Richard MacPhail confirm that the Roman temple precinct area was probably used as a cattle corral after the Romans left.
A bone lice comb find, together with large quantities of human hair, sets off the team on a search for lice in the cess pit refuse. The cess pits in general are yielding a wide variety of finds.
16.20
As the finds dry up, the mechanical digger is brought in to clear the final debris from the trench. The non-Roman material is now cleared to prepare for the investigation of the Roman layers tomorrow.
18.00
The team finds its first lice -- in human hair from the cess pits.
Tyler Hill
Saturday 26 August
8.30 am
The security guards open the site for the production crew. Everybody prepares equipment before the archaeologists and cameo specialists arrive.
9.00am
The Time Team diggers arrive, led by Mick-the-dig Worthington. Regular Time Team digger Ian Powesland also appears, ready to co-ordinate work with some local Canterbury archaeologists.
9.30am
Deturfing (removing the top layer of grass) commences on the first trench. It’s at this stage that features could appear so the diggers follow up deturfing with cleaning back the underlying soil.
9.32am
Everyone discovers that the soil here is like concrete!
11.15am
Things are a bit stalled on site as the archaeologists and even the mechanical digger are struggling with the soil conditions. More later…
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 449 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Mon, Aug 28, 2000 (19:38) * 3 lines
Ah, neither Marcia nor Maggie would be safe with those hunky archaeologist milling about. Would it rather be that said archaeologists wouldn't be safe? Just being silly.
Thanks for the detailed posting, Maggie.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 450 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Aug 29, 2000 (04:26) * 3 lines
They did a special 1 hour Time Team programme lunch time yesterday and a later report back. The finds at Canterbury have been spectacular. They have uncovered an intact medieval tile factory, and excavation will continue to uncover this unique factory site. It is truly immense!
Last night was 'Roman' night again on the TV and there was a really good programme about Nero. Then there was another programme about Gladiators which was fascinating, and a further one on Trajan's column which depicts the Dacian wars and is a history of Roman warfare. By 10.30 pm I was completely Roman'd out *grin*
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 451 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Aug 29, 2000 (13:31) * 1 lines
I am so jealous!!! All I have of Canterbury is a small chunk of the original Caen Limestone exterior which they were replacing.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 452 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Aug 29, 2000 (13:36) * 1 lines
I understand from someone who is on a dig, that it gets to be an old thing. Scholarship calls when your supervisors will only let you dig. I guess that is part of the apprenticeship process (or grad student.) Makes for fantastic physiques, however!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 453 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Aug 29, 2000 (14:33) * 1 lines
Hmm, physique is a male thing I think!!! Ah, so that's why there are so many hunks on digs....To be truthful I don't think I have the energy to dig really .....Just like the thought of it.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 454 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Aug 29, 2000 (14:39) * 1 lines
Nit picking in my thing. I'll wash and screen the diggings but I'd really rather pick over the screenings. Digging is not for me. I am far too slender to do heavy digging!
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 455 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 31, 2000 (23:15) * 48 lines
SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN - DISCOVERING ARCHAEOLOGY
Newsletter for August 31, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- SWALLOWED BY THE SANDS
Archaeologists Hope to Solve the Mystery of Persia's Lost Army of Egypt
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/articles/082800-sands.shtml
- ONLINE CONTEST!
Answer the question correctly and win great prizes from Egypt Revealed!
Just for kids! This week's prize is the Pharoah game CD-Rom by Sierra.
https://orion.he.net/%7Esaa49000/onlinecontest.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- Discovery at Lake Titicaca Questioned
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000823/wl/bolivia_titicaca_ruins_1.html
- Cambodia's Army Profits From Archaeo-Tourism
http://www.ngnews.com/news/2000/08/08292000/cambodia_2982.asp
- Titanic Salvager's Erie Haul
http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/read/titanic0816.html
- Ming Dynasty Bowl Recovered From Spanish Shipwreck http://sg.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/afp/article.html?s=singapore/headlines/000830/world/afp/Ming_dynasty_bowl_found_in_wreck_of_Manila_galleon.html
- Excavating in Aphrodisias, Turkey
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/082900sci-archaeo-turkey.html
- This Old House
http://www.denverpost.com/news/news0828c.htm
- Venice is Sinking
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/082900sci-venice-flooding.html
- Do Graffiti, Go to Jail
http://www.vernal.com/aug16/fr.defacing.p1.html
-----
The Discovering Archaeology Newsletter finds the week's most
interesting archaeological stories and presents them to you in a
simple, easy to read format on the web. Read these and other
interesting features, including Readers Polls, Book Reviews,
Archaeological Event Calendars and much more at:
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 456 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Wed, Sep 6, 2000 (03:19) * 10 lines
(http://www.volcano-hawaii.com/petroglyphs.htm)
Petroglyphs
Ancient Hawaiian Rock Art
Want to get a true picture of the history of Hawai'i? You can learn a lot from Hawaiian petroglyphs - ancient rock carvings that tell stories about early life on the islands.
The Hawaiian petroglyphs is a great mystery of the Pacific. No one knows who made them or why, but it seems that perhaps ordinary people, not artists, etched the linear and triangular figures into the pahoehoe lava. These graphic carvings, more than 3,000 of them, were probably made as part of ritual or prayer and speak of spiritual phenomena - mana.
Upon approaching a petroglyphs field, a wonderful cast of characters leap to life. There are dancers, paddlers, fishermen, and family groups. Turtle, dog, ship and horse symbols are also depicted, as well as fish hooks, spears, poi pounders and canoes. There are 135 different petroglyphs sites on six inhabited islands, but most of them are found on the Big Island of Hawai'i.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 457 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Sep 7, 2000 (13:58) * 37 lines
Scientific American Discovering Archaeology Weekly
Newsletter for September 06, 2000
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/newsletter.shtml
--- Feature Stories ---
- THE REAL VIKING LEGACY
Trade, not Terror, was the Hallmark of the Norse
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/articles/090100-vikings.shtml
- ONLINE CONTEST!
A Contest for kids! Answer the question correctly and win great prizes
from Egypt Revealed. This week's prize is the Pharoah game CD-Rom by
Sierra.
https://orion.he.net/%7Esaa49000/onlinecontest.shtml
Plus these Feature Reports:
- Thawing Out Mr. Cool
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000405944438668&rtmo=r2QbXF3X&atmo=99999999&pg=/et/00/9/3/wmum03.html
- Russia's Oldest Book
http://www.sptimes.ru/current/news/n_dig.htm
- Archaeologists Find Bronze Age City
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000831/sc/bulgaria_bronze_age_1.html
- Dateline: Siberia
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newslink/weekly/newsnat-3sep2000-31.htm
- Excavations at Olonski, Poland
http://www.princeton.edu/~bogucki/oslonki.html
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 458 of 1283: Cheryl (CherylB) * Sun, Sep 10, 2000 (14:38) * 1 lines
Marcia aren't you glad to know that some of your Danish ancestors had real business acumen and weren't blood-thirsty thugs. Well, some of them might have been that too, as Europe was rapant with blood-thirsty thugs at that time. It was called the Dark Ages. I think the Vikings got really bad press because their favored targets were monasteries. The monasteries were rich, but monks were just about the only people who could write then in Europe. Hence, the Vikings were attacking the very people who wrote the history.
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 459 of 1283: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Sep 10, 2000 (21:30) * 1 lines
Believe it or not...(funny you should mention it)...in the 1910 Encyclopaedia Britannica there is an article on King Hemming (spelt precisely that way) who managed amongst other things to limit Charlemagne's nothern conquests and King Hemming's southern conquests by treaty. According to them (I Xeroxed it for posterity), he was the only one who was strong enough to limit Charlemagne by treaty. Thanks for noting that some had more than muscles between their ears. Like the Irish slave raiders who took Partick to Ireland, there were bullies in every crowd - even nowadays...
Topic 17 of 99 [Geo]: Archaeology: The world as a time capsule
Response 460 of 1283: Maggie (sociolingo) * Tue, Sep 12, 2000 (04:54) * 45 lines
Friday September 8 2:02 AM ET
Scientists Uncover Mayan Marketplace
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20000908/sc/guatemala_lost_city_1.html
By WILL WEISSERT, Associated Press Writer
GUATEMALA CITY (AP) - Scientists and looters ignored the ruin for nearly a century because it appeared devoid of temples and burial sites that might yield valuable treasures and artifacts.
They had no idea what they were missing.
Underneath the jungle curtain of mud and dense foliage was a sprawling lost city called ``Cancuen,'' (can-ku-win), one of the most important commercial centers of the Mayan world for more than 1,200 years.
Cancuen has been rediscovered by Guatemalan and American scientists working deep in the country's northern jungles. They believe it will take 10 years to fully unearth the city, which dates to 400 B.C.
It is buttressed by a 270,000-square-foot Mayan palace. With three floors - each 66 feet high - and 170 rooms, it is among the most grandiose Mayan structures ever discovered, the National Geographic Society announced Friday.
The society is a chief sponsor of the Cancuen excavation project.
``We started off working with what we thought was a small palace, part of a small Mayan settlement,'' said Arthur Demerest, a Vanderbilt University archaeologist and head of the Cancuen project. ``What we found was a palace 20 times as large as we were expecting and an important Mayan marketplace that had been forgotten for almost 100 years.''
Built in the shadow of the hulking palace, the 5-square-mile city featured a crowded rectangular layout of heavy stone walls, 11 spacious stone-tiled patios and buildings with cubbyhole-like rooms and thick, multileveled roofs.
While Demerest said scientists aren't sure how many Mayan merchants traded in Cancuen, the city is thought to have attracted thousands from nearby highland settlements, including the sprawling, majestic city of Tikal, 85 miles to the northeast.
Cancuen, an ancient Maya word meaning ``Place of the Serpent,'' became a key trading post because of the sprawling River Passion in what is known today as southern Peten, Guatemala's northernmost province, Demerest said.
First discovered in 1905 by Austrian explorer Tobert Maler, scientists and looters ignored the site for years.
``A city 
