in post 6 you will see a typical pattern of how taboo topics are disrupted so that it is unable to converse in them.
The following people were the dominant posters in those topics. They are all hosts of the cafe. These are the people that set the example and demonstrate to others what happens when you mention subjects that they feel uncomfortable about. Others soon learn that this is what will happen to them if they don't also submit to the will of the hosts.
hosts
--------
digem
kafzali
booda
jordan
riot
chiles
dior
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 9 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Tue, Aug 17, 1999 (01:35) * 15 lines
The link I was referring to in the previous post didn't take. I'll try again.
embarrassing trail of authorized and sanctioned incivility
Notice that Kai, the conference coordinator didn't step in to object to this. By his silence he has condoned this behavior.
This is an obvious example, usually this is done much more subtley. Sometimes a reasonable conversation will occur but which is totally off topic. An example was a topic on affluenza (conspicuous consumption) which went on for hundreds of posts on everything but the subject and finally the few people that wished to talk about this stopped posting, at which point everybody else did as well. The obvious intent was to prevent discussion of this subject.
A common response to this complaint is that if you don't like it you can leave. Which is what a lot of people land up doing. Usually they have already invested a few months or more before they realize that they have two options, either restrict your conversation to the trivial or leave.
There are many people that come to the cafe because they relate to the articles in the Utne Reader and think the cafe is a place for people that relate to these articles, and a place where they can engage in collective action. Almost everything that is worth doing something about is too large for one person to do on their own. They see the cafe as a place where they can work together, where they can have the same effectiveness as if they were working for a corporation but with an activist agenda rather
han a corporate agenda. Unfortunately anybody with this intention is soon driven out of the cafe.
An interesting question is whether this type of behavior is approved of by the Utne Reader or whether they just don't know about it.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 10 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Tue, Aug 17, 1999 (12:23) * 5 lines
The parsimonious hypothesis is that they are oblivious.
Do not attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by ignorance and obliviousness.
Virtually everything can be explained by ignorance and obliviousness.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 11 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (17:08) * 1 lines
You do not consider ennui? Or is that included in one of the two?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 12 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (20:01) * 1 lines
Boredom? I'll have to think about that. Right after I take a little nap here in this lovely field of poppies. Wake me if it's starts snowing...
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 13 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (20:02) * 1 lines
Boredom? I'll have to think about that. Right after I take a little nap here in this lovely field of poppies. Wake me if it starts snowing...
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 14 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (20:17) * 1 lines
Yes...yes...but what is snow? I am in a lovely field of orchids drowsing beneath a plumeria tree and watching big white puffy clouds lazily playing with the sun dappling my meadow.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 15 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Sat, Aug 28, 1999 (09:54) * 1 lines
Snow is one of the ingredients in a future orchid or a future cloud or a future meadow.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 16 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sat, Aug 28, 1999 (12:01) * 1 lines
Ah...Yes, I have seen it atop the mountains here. But, before the orchids get it, it is softened and gentled and warmed to just the correct temperatures. I have never seen snow on orchids...that must be rare, indeed!
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 17 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Wed, Sep 8, 1999 (13:43) * 124 lines
Without notice, Utne is dropping Motet and moving to an as yet unannounced new system. Before the Motet archives vanish altogether, let's revisit some classic postings...
Spirit.173 - Daimon
Spirit.173.23: Phil (pbb) Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:05:16 CST (3 lines)
When I read Plato's _Apology_ several years ago, in which Socrates
described his life, I got the impression that his daimon was an
almost physical reaction to intellectual dishonesty.
Spirit.173.24: Barry Kort (moulton) Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:52:05 CST (5 lines)
I frequently get a physical reaction to intellectual dishonesty. It's
an adrenalin rush that signifies crisis, danger. But I only get it if
the intellectual dishonesty is manifested by someone in power, someone
capable of instantiating political change on the basis of bogus
thinking.
Spirit.173.25: Elizabeth Sekellick (lisa451) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:51:05 CST (1 line)
Which pretty much describes Congress, eh, what?
Spirit.173.26: Barry Kort (moulton) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:45:24 CST (2 lines)
Well, actually this week's episode was triggered by a couple of people
right here in Cafe Utne.
Dog-ear Bookmark
Spirit.173.27: Phil (pbb) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:46:23 CST (2 lines)
The daimon might also be a trickster. It may manifest as your
antagonist.
Spirit.173.28: Barry Kort (moulton) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:22:54 CST (1 line)
Yep. The Coyote and the RoadRunner. Meep meep!
Spirit.173.29: scott (skot) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:26:27 CST (26 lines)
I think I missed that episode Barry. I do remember the one where the
Coyote was chasing the RoadRunner, but then Tweety Bird came and asked
why he was doing that. Seizing the oppurtunity, the Coyote devoured
Tweety. Much to his surprise, *another* Tweety Bird appeared and told
him that the first Tweety probably didn't appreciate. So he chased
after that one, but it got away. Funny thing is, Tweety Birds starting
springing up all over the place, about a dozen of them.
This upset him, and he decided the Birds must be conspiring against
him. At the same time, the birds were puzzled, some hurt, and some
angry at the Coyote's recent deeds.
The Coyote said, "My, you all are just tweeting and tweeting! I can't
understand a word you are saying. Why do you hurt me so?"
One of the Tweetys replied, "You have devoured our friend!"
The Coyote said, "What's wrong with that? That's who I am. If you
can't understand that, then you are living in a haze. Someday you may
see things the way I do."
One of the Tweetys responded, "But will you ever see things the way
the bird you devoured did?"
Unfortunately I missed the rest of the show...I guess how a myth
unfolds all depends on perspective, doesn't it?
Spirit.173.31: Barry Kort (moulton) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:12:46 CST (45 lines)
The one I remember is where Elmer Fudd caught Bugs Bunny chewing on a
chocolate covered carrot and remonstrated him, saying "You can't eat
chocolate covered carrots here! We're all on a diet because we all
think we're too fat!"
But Bugs just looked at Elmer, who was actually pretty skinny, and
said, "Eh, What's up Doc?" and kept on eating his chocolate covered
carrot.
So Elmer aimed his shotgun at Bugs and fired a blast, whereupon Bugs
said, "I won't fire at you if you won't fire at me."
"No deal," said Elmer Fudd.
So Bugs took out a Howitzer and blasted one at Elmer, which really
startled the audience, because that wasn't the way Disney usually
scripted this cartoon.
Then Yosemite Sam, who had been watching from the wings, took out an
ICBM and launched it at Bugs. Bugs caught the ICBM in a big rubber
sheet and reflected it back at Yosemite Sam.
After that, things really went to hell in a handbasket. Elmer Fudd
and Yosemite Sam recruited a bunch of troops to launch a massive
assault on Bugs. But their armaments kept bouncing back in their
faces. And Bugs just kept on eating his carrot.
Eventually Elmer Fudd, Yosemite Sam and the others decided this
cartoon wasn't fun and they weren't really winning, even though they
claimed they were, so they left to go start another cartoon somewhere
else.
Some of the audience said they enjoyed it, but the theater owner
wasn't sure it was family entertainment.
A few audience members stayed behind to see if Bugs was OK. They
couldn't imagine he had survived the firestorm. But Bugs was fine.
"You see, he said, the truth can sometimes be painful, but canards
bounce off me harmlessly and reflect back to their owner."
Whereupon Daffy Duck shows up and screams "Who you calling a Canard?!"
Bugs hands Daffy a box of Suffering Succotash and quietly says "Peas
be with you."
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 18 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Wed, Sep 8, 1999 (21:23) * 13 lines
The new software platform at Utne is Well Engaged 3. The pages load slow, you can't read offline, difficult to navigate, if you accidently hit the back button you go off to mystery land and lose track of where you were, there are cookies galore and the thing is infested with bugs.
Utne is trying to rush this through by Oct 5th which everybody says is not enough time. Interesting questions come up on why it takes years to come up with a written set of quidelines yet they can switch to a new system in five weeks. Too many bugs cropping up for them all to be account of configuration.
The hosts are all upset because the decision to change software was made before they even found out about it. I guess they didn't like feeling like a lot of the patrons have felt for sometime now. All Utne can do is keep saying "don't worry it's going to be okay" which is an expression from past experience that is tantamont to "pick up the soap."
One of the things that I feal real uneasy about is that they wish to join all of the alternate media together. Most of the databases that I have seen of WE are located in a single location discussions.wellengaged.com which means that Utne isn't buying/leasing a piece of software but a whole package deal. Plus all of these sites are going to be located on the same huge oracle database. The potential for datamining is scary, especially since this is alternative media, and I can't see where the economic ad
antage is in the switch unless it's for that reason.
This is going to be the biggest crisis that Utne has faced and I don't think the community will survive, though there will always be a new stream of sheep to waunder through the place and read the ads.
The discussion opened today in conference Cafe_Move for any that are interested in checking it out.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 19 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Thu, Sep 9, 1999 (08:31) * 1 lines
Stand by for much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 20 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Thu, Sep 9, 1999 (08:53) * 3 lines
Standing by.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 21 of 75: N Williams (moonbeam) * Thu, Sep 9, 1999 (18:55) * 5 lines
Lots of thrash going down over there.
Lots of questions, very few acceptable answers.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 22 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (00:33) * 8 lines
From what I've seen of the software it is going to promote very superficial conversations. You can't read offline, and if you try to go back to a previous page with the back button it refreshes on you so all you see is new posts. This means you either respond right away off the top of your head, or you keep a log book on your desk and write down where you want to go back to and respond. Not many people going to do the latter. But then again that's not much different than here at the Spring is it?
I'm just so disapointed that Utne has turned out to be just another business. I can appreciate having to pay the rent and everything, but I always thought that alternative publications operated like nonprofits. They only wanted to make enough money to stay alive, and the only reason they wanted to stay alive was so they could provide opposition to the mainstream and/or provide alternatives to the mainstream. Becoming mainstream just seems like selling out. Remember that term?
I had the impression when I first got there that Utne was going to use the cafe to provide some leadership and help coordinate an alternate movement. Nope, they discovered that there is profit to be made by soothing the guilt of boomers that have sold out. Wannabe activists that can't risk their jobs or lifestyles so they buy a magazine and prentend.
Something I'd really like to see is Mother Jones running Motet. That crappy display one post at a time threaded system that I saw on their site was just so slow and painful that I couldn't tolerate it and from the looks of the little volume I wasn't the only one.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 23 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (11:08) * 19 lines
I hear Utneans are unhappy about the switch to Well Engaged instead of
Motet and that Bryan Higgins is quite peeved about being left out of the
decision to abandon his Moteet software. It sounds olke the Engaged
people lowballed Utne to gain a competitive advantage over Motet.
Conferencing software wars?
I know Barry was kicked off Utne, and he's here making a contribution. I
haven't been there for a while so I don't have any first hand
observations. I'd like to hear from more Utne folks about their
experiences and how they feel about this autocratic decision to change
their interface.
You know the old "if it ain't broke . . . " saying. I'm a firm beliver in
that. Especially when it comes to some folks community. I hope folks
here are happy with Yapp but if they wanted something better we'd go to
it. But it would have to spring from the community, bottom up no top
down.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 24 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (17:56) * 8 lines
I've left the Utne Cafe until we move to the new platform and then I'll go back and check it out and see if it will be any different than what I think it will be. I'm not going to spend any time and energy helping to make it work.
My biggest complaint about the software is that it's structure discourages contemplative discussions. It promotes the shallow chat. This is probably good for the advertisers because I would imagine they would do better with impulse buyers than with people that think first.
One of my complaints is that management started looking around at this last fall, which was the same time that the volunteer survey group started working. We put in a lot of time and grief on things that were made irrelevant and management watched us do it and didn't say a thing. It also looked like what most of the people were looking for wasn't something that was going to be achieved by a new piece of software. Many said please don't do anything that will slow down the software.
I think this whole thing set back community building over in Utne. It will lose its sense of tradition and a lot of the old time members will move either move away or be lost in the maze. Small town community is being replaced with the transcience of the shopping mall.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 25 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (18:27) * 7 lines
What set back community building was the adoption of in loco parentis instead of crafting a social contract community. The mission statement was watered down and is now a joke.
I dunno who snookered who in the decision to drop Motet in favor of WE 3.0, but I am predicting disaster, both technical and social.
By the way, Nan was amused that my sworn enemies are cordially chatting it up with me over there, not realizing that I am posting under a pseudonym.
But what's really funny is to watch Kai trying to put the best spin on a turn of events that occured at a level beyond his control. He's clearly unhappy about it, but can't say so. Loyalty is big deal with Kai. He hasn't been in corporate America long enough to learn that loyalty to the corporation is a recipe for betrayal. Here Bryan was unceremoniously chucked after years of helpful service, and Kai marches on saluting and defending the generals who backstabbed Bryan.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 26 of 75: N Williams (moonbeam) * Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (20:18) * 3 lines
I cut back my Cafe participation drastically 15 months ago after Kai "de-hosted" me from Spirit, Philosophy and Media for no reason other than I was Barry's friend and cohort and, therefore, not to be trusted.
Gotta run IRL -- will post more later.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 27 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (23:27) * 1 lines
If the software is paid for, and the data is stored on a cluster of pentiums that are also paid for, and if all the labour is volunteer, then how much does it cost to run a virtual community? I'm thinking just the cost of a T1 line, or are there other expenses that I don't know about?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 28 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (12:17) * 8 lines
It costs us about $600-800 a month and folks are starting to be generous
with contributions. And we're making money on our "click throughs". Did
you know if you click through on the visto link at http://www.spring.net
that the spring makes $2.00. If enough community members do that we can
make it. It's hard, but not impossible to have a self supporting
community. We're heading in that direction. But I clearly believe in
bottom up decision making as opposed to imposing something on the members
for the sake of advertisers.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 29 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (13:17) * 9 lines
Thanks for that info Terry. I wasn't aware that you made that much from the click throughs; I'll read a few adds and help you out. I suppose that once they have your ID# or whatever that further click throughs by the same person don't make any revenue difference. How often do I have to click through to maximize the amount of money that the Spring gets?
With rates like what you quoted even $10 a year from each member would go a long way towards making a community pay for itself. When the option of user pay came up at the other site they didn't say how much it cost to run the place but replied by asking if people would be willing to pay as much as for there ISP. Well, $15-20 a month would be a bit much but that much per year probably wouldn't be objectionable. A few people have even mentioned that they wouldn't mind paying over at the other site provid
d that they felt that they had some kind of say in how the community was run.
The general tone over there is that anybody that questions how the cafe is run is an ungrateful SOB. Utne is spending all this money, etc, and that entitles them to do whatever they want, and we should just be thankful that we are allowed to post there. If it's costing them that much then maybe the problem is with how the money is managed, as in it shouldn't be costing that much. I also suspect that they are making some money off of their ads, those annoying blinking ads.
It appears to me, that the economic bottom line, is that they are getting very cheap advertising for their magazine. They could probably finance the cafe for a couple of decades for the cost of a single national TV ad.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 30 of 75: N Williams (moonbeam) * Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (13:30) * 1 lines
Terry, could you please provide a basic break-out of where the $600-800 a month operating costs pay for here? Thanks.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 31 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (16:02) * 6 lines
$400 ddc.net for website hosting our servers
$150 SW Bell for isdn connection
$250 hardware/software costs (conservative)
add occasional consulting fees and other misc. costs
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 32 of 75: N Williams (moonbeam) * Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (18:18) * 1 lines
Thanks! I'm wondering if the software costs you refer to are associated with a monthly charge to use YAPP, or if your license to use it was a one-time cost like it is with Motet.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 33 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (14:41) * 1 lines
I could run a Motet server on MuseNet for nothing more than the cost of the Motet license, which is $500. We've been running MuseNet for a decade now at essentially no cost. Our current fleet is mostly Sparc 2 machines. Motet runs fine on a Sparc 2.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 34 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (16:36) * 8 lines
It's none of my business because this move is all about business. I think they better be careful about ever mentioning the word "community" again because too many people will tell them to blow their ass. But if this was a community then the financial balance sheet should be open for view.
Any money spent on the Lens shouldn't be counted in with the cost of running the cafe. IMHO
The biggest expense would probably be Kai's salary and if they quit their parental style of management, and their control freak tendancies, out of the equation he wouldn't be required at all.
I still think that the economic bottom line is that Utne is getting pretty cheap advertising for their magazine. And if they are not then it is because they are managing it poorly. I see no reason that the alternative community has to be sold out because of their poor management.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 35 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (09:58) * 3 lines
There is a glaring disconnect between the themes in the magazine and the cultural model of the Cafe, which follows a strict parental model, with Kai as the parent.
I think that's the main reason there are so few academics left on Utne. Academics don't much care for oligarchies, Machiavellian control freaks, and algolagnic parent models.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 36 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (10:46) * 7 lines
Too bad, because Utne is a great alternative mag, and that's such a huge
advantage in building a vc (having a widespread print vehicle). It's like
Whole Foods being able to put their web communities url on all their
grocery bags. I sometimes speculate about the Spring aligning with a
print publication. But who?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 37 of 75: Robert Oveson (ov) * Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (14:02) * 19 lines
I don't know what happened, but the feeling is gone and I don't think that I'll get it back. I've been in love with the cafe for a couple of years now and it is finally settling in that I was in love with my own projection and that it had no basis in reality. I don't know which is greater, my disapointment or my loss. Strange how you can lose something that you never had in the first place.
I'm one of those people that think there is a battle for the net between those that want it to be a forum for communication and those that want it to be the ultimate home shopping channel. I am one of those fools that think that we are rapidly losing control of our world and that soon corporations will rule the world and we will all be unpaid employees.
I also thought that the net and particularly forums like the cafe would serve as meeting places for those that wanted to have more of a say in how our world is developing and to excercise the democratic ideals. A place to counteract the atomization that makes each individual alone and powerless. A place where I could work with others on things that are just too big for any one individual. A place that would help me resist rather than accept the inevitable.
I thought the purpose of alternative publications was to expose bullshit and provide important information that the mass media should be providing but isn't. I remember when investagative journalism like 60 Minutes used to cover significant issues like corrupt politicians and government scandal, but now it seems like the limit of their controversy is pointing out that there are dishonest auto mechanics. There used to be a time when the mass media showed at least some concern for the public welfare. So
f the mass media won't take responsability then its up to the alternative media to take up the slack, and now I feel like they also have sold me down the river.
I've spent a lot of time at the cafe because I was hoping to meet people and learn where they were coming from so that I would be better able to evaluate what they had to say. I was hoping that the people in the cafe would be a substitute for the talking heads on the TV, and be able to point out what was bullshit and what wasn't. It would take a lot of expensive people to provide this service, and the corporate sector sure isn't going to pay for it, but it could be done if we were doing it for ourselves
and willing to do it for nothing. To me this just seemed like the logical next step in achieving the objectives of an alternative publication. I think that this is why I feel so betrayed.
The salons were the last place on the net where people could come together and work as a group rather than being lone voices crying in the wilderness hoping their webpage would make a difference. Now all of the salons are coming under the control of the same business. Salon bought the Well, and they are both using Well Engaged, and now so is Utne. Even if they could get organized enough to go beyond insignificant chatter it would be simple enough to close the doors and shut it down. And then where wou
d these people go. All of the alternative media is being bought out by the mainstream. What good does freedom of speech do if there is no place to speak.
I've seen quite a few people in the cafe that also feel like this. They post passionately about significant things. I click on their bio and find out they have just been here for a few weeks. After a few months a don't see them anymore. I wonder where they go to, or if they just give up in disillusionment like myself.
But for me the question remains, if the Utne Cafe isn't the type of place that I'm looking for then where do I go instead. I just can't believe that I am the only one that wants to help promote the alternative.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 38 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (21:07) * 5 lines
I had hoped to form an Orenda Community, but I found, much to my chagrin and dismay, that I could not do so on the Well, on Utne, at E-Minds, at Brainstorms, at Flowering City, or at Community Intelligence Labs. Evidently an Orenda Community is just too threatening an idea for most Web site managers.
I find an occasional like-minded soul here and there, but so far I have failed to bring us all together to work towards the goals of Orenda.
I felt that Motet was the best conferencing software for the job, and we actually had a decent conference going at Flowering City Forum at U-Mass, until the site manager found himself emotionally overloaded and shut everything down.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 39 of 75: Nan Williams (moonbeam) * Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (23:09) * 7 lines
Ah, and don't forget there is an Orenda tribe still stumbling along on Yahoo, as well.
I think perhaps the problem here on Spring is that the conference is private. Being public would bring a lot more visibility. (Were we private at Flowering Cities Forum? I can't remember...)
I am inordinately fond of Motet, I admit. Can't be unbiased about it at all. For much of my cyberlife I've driven the equivalent of a Volkswagen on the info superhighway, and WellEngaged is a road hog that has crashed me enough times I'm wary of using it.
Oh well. Moot now, at the Cafe.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 40 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (08:19) * 3 lines
A private conference can easily be converted to a public one, if that is
your desire. If that's what the host(s) and participants desire, that is.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 41 of 75: Conf admin (cfadm) * Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (08:50) * 1 lines
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 42 of 75: N Williams (moonbeam) * Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (22:15) * 1 lines
oh? really?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 43 of 75: Going Silent Now... (moulton) * Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (07:15) * 1 lines
The way grasshoppers signal danger is by going silent.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 44 of 75: Alexander (aschuth) * Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (12:37) * 1 lines
Nan, listen to the man. He has something to say.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 45 of 75: FX MasterMind (fxmastermind) * Thu, Jul 6, 2000 (19:59) * 13 lines
This topic is public btw
I havn't linked to it, or brought it to anyones attention, but it is word readable from the Net (without registering)
Though you might want to know.
Hi Terry! (if you don't know who I am, just ask Barry)
heh
Or about anyone these days.
Anyone want to talk about MetaMatters?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 46 of 75: FX MasterMind (fxmastermind) * Thu, Jul 6, 2000 (20:03) * 1 lines
Or Utne for that matter?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 47 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Fri, Jul 7, 2000 (12:00) * 2 lines
All of the conferences but one are available using public rather than restricted in the URL. The only difference is in the public, one cannot post comments.
Welcome to Spring. I will have to get out of Geo more and find out what Utne is all about before I can have an intelligent conversation about it with you. I do, rather, like This Virtual Community - mostly because it allowed me the ability to create Geo where I dwell
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 48 of 75: FX MasterMind (fxmastermind) * Sun, Jul 9, 2000 (00:10) * 11 lines
I was responding to:
Topic 18 of 26 [vc]: Utne Cafe
A private conference can easily be converted to a public one, if that is
your desire. If that's what the host(s) and participants desire, that is.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was this not public before? Was it changed?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 49 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jul 9, 2000 (01:34) * 1 lines
Lots of things changed when we changed servers. Perhaps its lack of activity caused its privacy to be overlooked. I think this was one of the provate conferences...
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 50 of 75: FX MasterMind (fxmastermind) * Sun, Jul 9, 2000 (14:12) * 3 lines
It should be I imagine. Some of the information posted here could cause problems on Utne for the people here.
This page is also listed on Yahoo.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 51 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jul 9, 2000 (15:29) * 2 lines
Then Terry should be notified. Shall I??? Or would you prefer to do so?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 52 of 75: FX MasterMind (fxmastermind) * Sun, Jul 9, 2000 (16:18) * 3 lines
You please.
I havn't talked to Terry in a loooong time. But the virtual kaka is hitting the fan again on Utne, and this is fuel for the flames.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 53 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Jul 9, 2000 (16:55) * 1 lines
OK, emailing him immediatlely - sorry for the inconvenience. Aloha!
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 54 of 75: FX MasterMind (fxmastermind) * Sun, Jul 9, 2000 (17:45) * 1 lines
Aloha!
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 55 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (23:57) * 1 lines
FX, it is still here...
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 56 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:27) * 1 lines
and with all that nothing has changed, unfortunately, here! Fx, all I can do is try to contact the Terry again. However, he might have to unlink it with whereever it is linked - if it indeed is. One topic cannot be made private. it has to have conference status to do that. Check with Barry to see if there is an Utne Cafe elsewhere which is private. I see no sign of it here even where I can go. Sorry this is causing so much distress.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 57 of 75: Jerry Basham (Farfnarf) * Sat, Aug 19, 2000 (16:14) * 1 lines
Why's everybody saying "aloha?"
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 58 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (00:24) * 2 lines
Aloha Jerry!
Because I live in Hawaii. I started it and it is very contagious, I guess. Sorry!
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 59 of 75: Jerry (Farfnarf) * Tue, Aug 22, 2000 (22:11) * 3 lines
No, I like it. :O)
Just curious. But now I'm jealous, I live in Nebraska.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 60 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Aug 22, 2000 (23:03) * 0 lines
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 61 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Tue, Aug 22, 2000 (23:06) * 5 lines
Nebraska has virutes surely. Like tornadoes. We have live a volcano erupting as we speak, new land being created, new topography, too. We also have more than our share of Earth Quakes, and an occasional tsunami. But, no snakes in Paradise. Lovely little secluded beaches from which you can watch the eruption
and check the skies where the stars hang just out of reach... Aloha, Jerry!
All one needs is the right person with which to share all of this beauty...
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 62 of 75: Jerry (Farfnarf) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (21:37) * 1 lines
..you've got me dreaming..
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 63 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (22:45) * 1 lines
I could tell you of this little secluded black sand beach... sky so clear that you can reach out and touch stars... Listen to the whales sleeping just off shore... Surging surf on the sand rhythmically subtle... Molten gold lava snaking its way to the sea on a background of black velvet...
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 64 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (22:46) * 1 lines
It is a place to share with someone very special...*sigh*
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 65 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Thu, May 1, 2003 (11:43) * 11 lines
Feedback.81 -- Utne Host Censorship of ideas
{Feedback.81.613}: Kai Hagen {kai} Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:35:16 CDT (7 lines)
Regarding Barry Kort:
Folks in CAP and elsewhere can talk about Barry and his
relationship with the Cafe, if you like.
But that is not a situation that is going to be resolved any
differently at this end of things.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 66 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, May 3, 2003 (16:01) * 3 lines
Hey, Barry, Could you give us more background on all this. What's happening in your life these days?
Long time!
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 67 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Sat, May 3, 2003 (17:27) * 5 lines
The issues I raised some 5 years ago at Cafe Utne continue to fester without resolution. Increasing numbers of people, formerly loyal to Kai, seem to have come to recognize the systemic problems there.
Meantime, I'm now a Visiting Scientist at the MIT Media Lab, where I'm working on an NSF-funded project on the Theory of Emotions and Learning.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 68 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Sun, May 4, 2003 (16:47) * 1 lines
Gadzooks! It is true that what has been around never quites get put to sleep. I had forgotten this problem existed. I guess I was out of the loop. Barry, it is good to see you on Spring again!
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 69 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Mon, May 5, 2003 (10:39) * 1 lines
What's the ambience like at the MIT Media Lab? What kinds of projects are going on there now?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 70 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Mon, May 5, 2003 (11:48) * 1 lines
It's a great research venue, with lots of interesting and innovative projects underway. The downturn in the economy has affected the lab, and some of the extravagances are now ancient history. The area I work in -- affective computing -- has mushroomed into a substantial amount of work on social and emotional computing, including the design of social and emotional 'warm fuzzy' robots.
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 71 of 75: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Tue, May 6, 2003 (08:35) * 1 lines
Where can we find out more about it, what are some of the more relevant websites (including yours) about warm and fuzzy robots and affective computing?
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 72 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Tue, May 6, 2003 (10:22) * 13 lines
* Cynthia Brazeal's home page -
http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/cynthia/cynthia.html
Dr. Brazeal's work with Kismet at MIT -
http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/humanoid-robotics-group/kismet/kismet.html
* Roz Picard's home page -
http://web.media.mit.edu/~picard/
Roz Picard's research at the Affecting Computing Lab at MIT -
http://affect.media.mit.edu/
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 73 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Tue, May 6, 2003 (10:29) * 1 lines
My stuff is at http://affect.media.mit.edu/AC_research/lc
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 74 of 75: Marcia (MarciaH) * Wed, May 7, 2003 (00:15) * 1 lines
Checking yours first. YOU, I know...!
Topic 18 of 52 [vc]: Utne Cafe
Response 75 of 75: Barry Kort (moulton) * Wed, May 7, 2003 (09:23) * 1 lines
It's kinda technical.
vc conference 
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